6066 (1960-1966) GMC Truck Club

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-   -   1966 And Later Fuel Pumps (https://6066gmcclub.com/showthread.php?t=50537)

BobBray January 25th, 2019 09:11 AM

1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
While the old style 'rebuildable' screw-together fuel pumps still seem to be available, the non-serviceable 1966 and new pumps often show as discontinued on auto part supplier websites. This is not altogether true, the later style pumps are still available though they are hard to find. The problem is the fuel pumps on 305E's and 351E's used in light trucks came with a 5/16" hose nipple inlet, and those are discontinued. However, the same pump with a 3/8" inlet is still manufactured. You can find the 3/8" inlet pump listed for V-6's in medium and heavy duty trucks with the larger 'Magnum' V-6's. They have the same 1/2" flare fitting outlet, so all you have to do to use these pumps on light duty trucks is get a 3/8" to 5/16" reducer hose nipple. Part numbers for the 3/8" pumps are as follows:

NAPA NNP B0143P
Airtex 40050
Carter M4548
Precision M20022 (O'Reilly's)

lizziemeister'sV6 January 25th, 2019 02:28 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Great information! Would you give us the insight on the curved arm and the straight arm versions of pumps depending on the year/model of the engine. Was the reason of this the difference in the camshaft? OK to use straight arm version instead of curved arm and vice-versa? Good knowledge to share - THANKS!:thumbsup:

BobBray January 25th, 2019 08:27 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
That's a good question. The non-serviceable '66 and newer pumps all have the straight arm. I believe at some point the mounting bolt holes were changed to 5/16". I think the curved arm pumps were very early, maybe '60-'62. Couldn't say if the difference was the fuel pump eccentric on the camshaft or the timing cover.

LEWISMATKIN January 26th, 2019 02:33 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Bob, the only difference between the '65 pump (AC #4578) and the '66 pump (AC #40050) is the inlet bib. GM increased the inlet size of all vehicle lines to 3/8" from the earlier combination of either 5/16" or 3/8" depending upon division. Whether or not the arm is bent or straight is dependent on the manufacture of the specific pump (AC, Airtex, or Carter), either will work on the V6 engine.

BobBray January 26th, 2019 07:16 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Funny thing, my '67 has 5/16" fuel lines to the pump. This is where I ran into a problem, the 5/16" inlet pumps seem to be all obsolete. Only pumps for my truck listed at places like Rockauto now are universal electric pumps.

LEWISMATKIN January 27th, 2019 07:11 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Bob, I know it is possible that GM continued the 5/16"-3/8" during production in the light duty trucks. The I-6 still carried a 5/16" line into the early 70's. However, the '67 my dad had (which he had sold when he was a dealer) used the 40050 pump. I replaced it at least once while we had it.

Clarke January 28th, 2019 02:19 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
2 Attachment(s)
My ‘62 has the 5/16” line with the straight arm pump, which I have replaced seven times within the last two years. I have driven my truck several thousand miles the last couple of years and after several hundred miles the pump starts spewing oil out of the weep hole near the body flange that is screwed together.

I’m assuming this is mostly due to the rubber diaphragm being too small diameter and constantly running the engine at 3,400 rpm to maintain 65 mph.

A couple years ago I almost swapped the pump to a later model, which has a larger diameter diaphragm with angled arm, but I wasn’t sure if it would work and for that reason was hesitant to change my fuel lines from 5/16” to 3/8” dia. I’m assuming with the bent arm the stroke travel would be less, but with the larger diameter diaphragm (increased surface area) maybe there would still be ample fuel volume and the pump would last longer? I ended up taking the later model pump back to Napa and still changing out the original. I will most likely upgrade to electric fuel pump.

BobBray January 28th, 2019 04:08 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Is there a lot of alcohol in the gasoline you are using? I have seen alcohol do funny things to older rubber, maybe the pumps you are getting are old stock. The new NAPA fuel pumps are supposed to be alcohol resistant.

Clarke January 28th, 2019 06:02 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps (My experience with 1962 Straight Arm Pump)
 
Right or wrong, on this particular subject, I don’t believe ethanol gas and/or NOS is the issue, for the following reasons:

I’ve had my truck for about 12 years now and have driven it about 12K miles with 9 or 10 mechanical fuel pump changes. My truck originally had 4.56 rear end and for the first few years I only drove it during the summer months, because I spent the winter months restoring the truck. During that time, I had to replace the fuel pump (O’Reilly brand) two times and maybe put 1K total miles on the truck during those first few years, running the cheaper “up to 10% ethanol gas”. In addition, those several winters sitting idle with the same ethanol gas without following any long-term storage procedures/any fuel additives/etc.

The third year I swapped out the 4.56 rear end for 3.54, so I could keep up with highway traffic and not beat the motor up so bad, yet I could still do some moderate towing with my original transmission and oversized tires. With the 3.54 rear end, I put about 5K miles on the truck over a five year period, running the same cheaper “up to 10% ethanol gas” and had to replace the fuel pump (O’Reilly brand) one time.

Then, we got a 4K lb. camper and couldn’t keep up with highway traffic, so several years ago I swapped out the 3.54 rear end for 4.10, and this has been working great for our set up/driving habits. However, I’m back to swapping the fuel pump every 300-700 miles. I have tried running non-ethanol gas, adding fuel conditioners, added 1/16” thick shim between pump housing and block to possibly reduce amount of travel on the straight arm, and tried multiple fuel pumps from three different auto stores (FYI, only got 500 miles from the NAPA pump in 2018). I am confident none of these pumps were NOS, as the packaging was new and the finish on all the aluminum and steel subcomponent parts were fresh looking. Additionally, all three brands had the exact same part number casted into the housings.

Now, there has to be a reason why GMC changed the fuel pump design, making the fuel pump body/diaphragm larger diameter and bending the arm… My theory is, the bent arm reduces the amount of travel on the diaphragm; therefore, reducing the amount of stress/stretch on the rubber diaphragm. Furthermore, due to the shorter (arm) travel, GMC increased the diameter of the fuel pump body to increase the surface area for sufficient pump/vacuum, then increased diameter of fuel line to increase fuel volume. Does this sound logical? Do the later model pumps with bent arm last longer? Can the bent arm pump be used on the earlier 305s, without making any adjustments to the cam/etc?

I know ethanol gas is hard on certain fuel components, as I have used two stroke tools for decades without issues until I started running ethanol gas and soon had to replace all fuel lines because they became brittle. I no longer use ethanol gas in my two stroke tools, but I have proven via multiple “straight arm” pumps running non-ethanol gas/etc within the last few years with my many 600 mile round trips between KS and AR; this is not the case. I truly believe the (straight) arm travel is too great for the (smaller) diaphragm, and when running higher RPMs (up to 3.4K), the result is premature failure of the diaphragm).

BobBray January 28th, 2019 08:36 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Makes sense. I would agree with your theory about pump diaphragm size.

ilvracn January 29th, 2019 03:14 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
makes sense to me, my 66 is on it's 3rd fuel pump in 5 years. probably around 1500 to 2000 miles. i don't know what gears are in the rear axle, but i have fairly tall tires, 60 mph is really turning engine, 3400 rpm. after last time pump went out, i bought an extra, and carry it behind the seat. i thought about an electric pump, has any put one on our trucks? would prefer in tank, don't know if that is available.

BobBray January 29th, 2019 09:39 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
FWIW, my '67 has needed 1 fuel pump in the last 12 years.

Clarke January 29th, 2019 11:03 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BobBray (Post 70525)
FWIW, my '67 has needed 1 fuel pump in the last 12 years.

About how many miles before and after your pump replacement? Correct me if I’m wrong, the ‘67 has the bent arm with larger diameter body?

Clarke January 29th, 2019 11:30 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
O’Reillys has inline electric pumps by Edelbrock for less than $50. I’m assuming the low PSI one would be sufficient since I still have my tank behind the seat (gravity fed) and I’m still running the stock carb. If I get one I was thinking of mounting it just downstream of the stock fuel filter on the passenger frame.

I have heard these older motors typically start easier with electronic fuel pumps.

Ed Snyder January 29th, 2019 11:54 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarke (Post 70527)
O’Reillys has inline electric pumps by Edelbrock for less than $50. I’m assuming the low PSI one would be sufficient since I still have my tank behind the seat (gravity fed) and I’m still running the stock carb. If I get one I was thinking of mounting it just downstream of the stock fuel filter on the passenger frame.

I have heard these older motors typically start easier with electronic fuel pumps.

My Dad installed a back-up electric fuel pump shortly after buying the one ton Suburban I have now. Since it sits for awhile sometimes without being driven, I always run the electric pump for a few seconds first, then shut it off as soon as the engine fires. Then the stock engine-driven pump takes over.

I had installed a back-up electric pump on a '66 pickup I used to own (which Clyde in SC has now). It saved my bacon one time when I was driving in heavy traffic on Interstate 5 up in Washington. The engine driven pump quit all of a sudden. After a moment of panic I remembered to switch on the electric pump. Thankfully the engine fired right back up with nobody behind me honking!

Clarke January 30th, 2019 12:24 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Snyder (Post 70528)
My Dad installed a back-up electric fuel pump shortly after buying the one ton Suburban I have now. Since it sits for awhile sometimes without being driven, I always run the electric pump for a few seconds first, then shut it off as soon as the engine fires. Then the stock engine-driven pump takes over.

Ed, I remember your dad telling me the electric pump assisted with vapor lock issues while on family vacations in the Rockies (high altitude).

Ed Snyder January 30th, 2019 01:14 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarke (Post 70530)
Ed, I remember your dad telling me the electric pump assisted with vapor lock issues while on family vacations in the Rockies (high altitude).

Sounds like your memory is better than mine, David! I had forgotten about that. Fortunately I never experienced any vapor lock when I drove it from Wichita to Medford in 2014.

63gmc4x4 January 30th, 2019 06:50 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
My airtex 40050 is bent arm with 5/16 fitting works great on my 351e

BobBray January 30th, 2019 08:28 AM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarke (Post 70526)
About how many miles before and after your pump replacement? Correct me if I’m wrong, the ‘67 has the bent arm with larger diameter body?

A few thousand. No idea how old the pump was when I put it on, it looked like old stock that had been laying around. Yes, large diameter with the bent arm.

ilvracn January 31st, 2019 02:03 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
1 Attachment(s)
i still had my old pump laying on the bench from this summer when it went bad. i decided to take it apart, and see what went wrong. one of the check valves fell out. i was driving at hiway speed, i think the vibration from 3400 rpm probably vibrated the valve from it's seat in the pump. diaphram looked excellent. looks like manufacturer defect, should have been staked in.

Clarke January 31st, 2019 03:53 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ilvracn (Post 70540)
i still had my old pump laying on the bench from this summer when it went bad. i decided to take it apart, and see what went wrong. one of the check valves fell out. i was driving at hiway speed, i think the vibration from 3400 rpm probably vibrated the valve from it's seat in the pump. diaphram looked excellent. looks like manufacturer defect, should have been staked in.

Interesting... Did the engine die on the road or did it still run?

The first several that went bad on me, I took apart and they had a small tear in the rubber diaphragm towards the outer edge just inside the body flange. I’m assuming this due to having a hard point/edge that the diaphragm is repeatally flexing against? The pumps still worked with tear, but leaks oil from weep hole and I’m assuming you risk getting gas in the crankcase if you continue driving. Luckily, none have left me stranded.

Thanks for sharing.

ilvracn January 31st, 2019 05:46 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
lost power going up a long hill, pulled the hose off of carb, would still squirt a little gas out. i thought gas gauge was wrong and ran out of gas. a farmer stopped to help, and went and got 5 gal gas. put 4.5 gal in tank, same thing. filled holley carb float bowl from vent hole, got truck running i was able to drive it home. started to run out of fuel in carb again on next hill. backed off of throttle, ran about 1/4 to 1/3 throttle up hill, made it over top of hill. was able to nurse it back, just kept rpm's up and throttle light. i was expecting to have crankcase full of gas but it was ok. changed oil just to make sure and replaced fuel pump.

zoulas June 17th, 2019 04:20 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Which fuel pumps are rebuildable? I have been getting the NAPA and they seem rebuildable but I am told there is no rebuild kit. The ethanol gas seems to destroy these pumps.

Clarke June 21st, 2019 12:15 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zoulas (Post 71154)
Which fuel pumps are rebuildable? I have been getting the NAPA and they seem rebuildable but I am told there is no rebuild kit. The ethanol gas seems to destroy these pumps.

Not sure about the rebuild kit, but based on my experience, Ethanol gas has nothing to do (or very little) with premature failure of the rubber diaphragm. You can find detailed explanations to my therory in earlier posts.

In short, the pump arm stroke (travel) is too great for the (smaller) diameter of the pump. I have proven this by using and hauling non-Ethanol gas on many road trips, and by the type of driving. These pumps last a lot longer when cruising around town at low to mid RPM range.

Constant higher RPM is what kills these pumps quicker. I have proven this multiple times by replacing the pump twice within a few hundred miles, running constant highway speed at 3200-3400 RPM while burning non-Ethanol gas (versus driving the same miles back and forth to work through town over a longer period while burning Ethanol gas).

My experience is based putting approx 15,000 miles over the last ten years on my ‘62 305.

FetchMeAPepsi June 21st, 2019 03:29 PM

Re: 1966 And Later Fuel Pumps
 
Another big killer is drying out. If you use your truck then don't use it for extended periods you can get dry cracks in the diaphragm that keep your pump from being able to generate any pull - or push.


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