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Wheels, Tires, Suspension and Brakes Keep them doggies rollin', rawhide

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  #21  
Old December 12th, 2014, 02:53 AM
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Smile Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960HDGMC View Post
Point well taken. It is a long way down the line from 1960. The closest we can get are extant examples that are "supposed" to be correct and original. I just saw a wheel that looks to be correct factory 1960-61 GMC 1000 series, and it looks slightly different than all the examples we have amassed here so far.( I will post it here.) I wish we had more early pictures taken by owners that would show wheels that are "probably" original to there trucks. The only pic I have of early GMC 1960 trucks (taken by or for GMC) shows the Potter Wheels like my truck. But I am fairly certain that they are not the ones designed for the production of these year trucks. Forgive my lack of nomenclature. I meant Suburban when I said Cameo. Cameo is Chevrolet, and I think the equivalent GMC is known as the Suburban Carrier. I have seen it called Suburban Pickup also, but I do not know if this is also correct. Please let me know. Does anyone know if ALL Suburban Carrier wheels had the nubbins for the presumed mandatory rings that mount on them? Could you order a Suburban Carrier without the rings? It almost seems oxymoronic, but was it possible? My wheels look like Cameo or Suburban Carrier wheels to a friend of mine. But they lack the nubbins for the rings. I simply wonder if they could actually be Cameo or Suburban Carrier wheels without rings.
This wheel with the white and blue hubcap looks to me to be the same as my light blue example wheel above. So back to Suburban Pickups - they never came with an accessory trim ring at all, so only Chevrolet Cameo's and other 57-59 trucks had them. Cameo's had the famous fluted trim rings as standard equipment, but they were available as an option on custom cab models in 57-59. The Chevy Cameo was called the "Cameo Carrier" so unfortunately the enthusiasts of today have spread the "Carrier" name over to the GMC Suburban Pickup and made it Suburban Carrier - totally incorrect, but 99% of people including magazine writers call it Suburban Carrier. I am changing this mis-information one person at a time
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1960 Custom Cab 1000 SWB Big Window, 305A V6, factory PS & PB, Clock, Tach, Hood Jet, Radio and Hydramatic.

1966 Suburban Carryall w/ Clamshells, all 4 sliders, 351 V6 w/factory automatic, PS, PB and assembly-line installed A/C, hazard switch, deluxe heater, optional Ammeter & Oil Guages, 3 rows of seats, Custom Cab pkg, sway bar, 2 speedd wiper w/ windshield washers, radio.
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  #22  
Old December 12th, 2014, 03:05 AM
AZKen AZKen is online now
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

Good points. If you go onto the Stovebolt site under gallery TF 57, you will see many backward spears. Last time I checked anyway. The people over there are nice people and I am not saying anything except I saw some examples. The 57 is THE most confusing, I admit. Just remember, it's a spear and the pointed end goes forward on any spear.
The next thing I want to check, if possible, is what feature a Suburban Carrier or Cameo trim ring has on it to receive the nubs, if anything. It seems a little strange that there are only 4. I am not totally sure the nubs are for caps. probably are. Just a few years later approx. 68-69-70 and up , the Rally rings have multi spring clips all around. I don't know what my wheels were on. Either did the guy I bought them from. I got the split rims today, I am on some kind of wheel obsession mission? Can't stop. I need intervention but I can not get it here that's for sure.
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  #23  
Old December 12th, 2014, 03:26 AM
AZKen AZKen is online now
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

Off subject 57 spear info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk_ZnYbFN08

Counted 16 on this page:
https://www.google.com/search?q=1957...ed%3B357%3B255

Wheel info:
GMCNut is correct:
According to Jim Carter the Chevy Cameo in it's four year run used Belair full wheel covers for 55 and 56, then used a ribbed trim ring in 57-58. The GMC Suburban pickup DID NOT use a trim ring in it's four year run, just a chrome cap. The wheel shown on the Suburban Pickup does have the extra squish ring feature. The Cameo wheels can not be seen in 55-56 (Full Cap), the 57-58 wheel does not have the squish ring. So if the squish is GMC and GMC had no rings and nubs are on squish rims; the nubs are non functional manufacturing features. (Clamping. indexing, forging)
Further, I have looked at 3 different Factory brochures for 1960 GMC. They are all artist renderings, not actual photos, so a little tricky. BUT: they show the potter wheel without the squish. So seems like the squish went away when Suburban Pickup went away and were probably used up in 59-60+ as replacement parts for 55-58 Suburban Pickups.

Last edited by AZKen; December 12th, 2014 at 04:42 AM.
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  #24  
Old December 12th, 2014, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

AZKen, My brain is itchin too. I remember my dad always saying the old car and truck hubcaps and rings were easy to get off the vehicle, going down the road. My car was hit by an errant wheel cover and received over 500 bucks of paint damage. I think the spring doobers of the later wheel covers were an improvement over the earlier designs. The GMC dog dishes seem to stay put, because of the rather strong spring clips laid out in a triangulated pattern. But the trim rings were famous for flying off. I think it was because of the nubbins. They may have been there by design. Many wheels of the same ilk do not have them. These four little "Bumps" are not sufficient to keep the rings home long term. I think the designers realized, from customer feedback, that something had to change. Enter the spring doobers. All this and we havn't even discussed the wheel diameter options. Were there 16 inch versions of the 15 inch wheels. Were they different . It never ends.
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  #25  
Old December 13th, 2014, 04:22 PM
AZKen AZKen is online now
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

Clarified my post to add the word TRIM. "So if the squish is GMC and GMC had no TRIM rings and nubs are on squish rims; the nubs are non functional manufacturing features."
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  #26  
Old December 14th, 2014, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

So I went to Florence today and retrieved Josh Quillen's Factory Black 2 owner all original 1960 GMC (its finally mine!) and it came with the exact same wheels as the light blue one I show on page 2 of this thread. Interesting little known fact: all factory Black painted trucks from the early 50's through 1962 or so had "mint green" wheels (I think Aspen Green is actually maybe the correct color name). So these on Josh's truck were repainted white and black over the years, but you can see the mint green showing up where all the later resprays are coming off. So I know these are the original wheels to this particular 60 GMC, because that mint green paint is our smoking gun in this trucks' case. I did not think to record the VIN for this and other conversations so will retrieve that tomorrow along with some pictures
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1960 Custom Cab 1000 SWB Big Window, 305A V6, factory PS & PB, Clock, Tach, Hood Jet, Radio and Hydramatic.

1966 Suburban Carryall w/ Clamshells, all 4 sliders, 351 V6 w/factory automatic, PS, PB and assembly-line installed A/C, hazard switch, deluxe heater, optional Ammeter & Oil Guages, 3 rows of seats, Custom Cab pkg, sway bar, 2 speedd wiper w/ windshield washers, radio.
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  #27  
Old December 14th, 2014, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

Check out this Ebay wheel auction eBay item number:271707813177. it shows the 6 clip version of the 50's wheels we've been discussing. 15's and 16's alike had this Cameo-style shape in 47-54 years and in 55 they went to 3 wide clips design instead of 6 skinny clips on these same otherwise 47-54 type wheels. If any 1960 GMC's ended up with these 47-59 type wheels it would have been an overrun I think but in 60 is when the design began to switch to what was going to be the later "nub" type wheels with no clips, which is why the Blue 60 GMC wheel on page 2 is almost identical in design to a 62-up later nub type wheel except for the clips.
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My 60-66 GMC Projects:

1960 Custom Cab 1000 SWB Big Window, 305A V6, factory PS & PB, Clock, Tach, Hood Jet, Radio and Hydramatic.

1966 Suburban Carryall w/ Clamshells, all 4 sliders, 351 V6 w/factory automatic, PS, PB and assembly-line installed A/C, hazard switch, deluxe heater, optional Ammeter & Oil Guages, 3 rows of seats, Custom Cab pkg, sway bar, 2 speedd wiper w/ windshield washers, radio.
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  #28  
Old December 14th, 2014, 06:40 PM
AZKen AZKen is online now
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

The 58 Wheel in post 12 is dressed wrong. No rings for Suburban Carriers. That pic is misleading.

Also, I have been floating the idea that nubs on GMC's were not for rings because all the prevailing info says no rings on GMC. I have been calling the nubs tooling features. I think we have nubs on squisher and non squisher. Post 5 says GMC has no nubbins, yet we see nubbins on the light blue that we want to call a GMC wheel. This needs to be rectified. Why is the wheel in post 5 called a GMC wheel?
In this type of investigation we need to identify wheel features and not state what they are for yet. Once we all know the different subtleties of wheels of the era, we can try to find old period pics or literature (Chevy and GMC)showing the different features we have described, then decide. It is possible we never will know for sure. It is very hard to prove a certain wheel is for a certain truck because of so many variations, no good factory pics and use of left over stock by factory and various vendors making wheels for factory possibly. We are trying, this is the place to do it. All opinions welcome, all facts worshiped.
If you want me to back off and let this roll, no problem. But here is another: If black trucks had green wheels, lets get some literature. "Little known facts" does not a fact make.
If not, the whole thread will be another collection of old timer opinion, urban legend, what my Dad said and false facts.
The Hub Caps have been done extremely well by Mr. Jolly and Mr. Throckmorton.

Last edited by AZKen; December 14th, 2014 at 06:59 PM.
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  #29  
Old December 14th, 2014, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

Hey GMCNut, I am glad you got the Black Phantom. If you get a tire off, please make a pic of the stampings if there are any. I saw the Ebay wheels. The green ones I saw are for sure what I am calling "Potters" Wheels. Are you suggesting that the Potter wheel design is also the Cameo design? I am inclined to believe that the Powder Blue Wheel with the Squisher profile looks like the Cameo wheel. The blue one (a 1959 GMC Suburban Pickup), with the ring that I added, has this same Squisher look. I do not know if that trucks wheels are correct or not. If they prove to be original, they would put the Squisher Wheels into production by 1959(probably late 1958). The white Ebay wheels look to have a double white pinstripe. I have seen this on trucks before, but I can not remember if it was Chevy or GMC. I would think the 6 small clips were earlier design, and 3 big clips were later, for both makes. If you can, please take a couple of pictures of a wheel on the new truck, with the hubcap off. One from straight on, and another taken so that the "Squisher" wheel profile is documented for that year GMC. I will post a pair taken of my wheels from similar angles, for examples. Thanks for the help, Greg Mead
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_3813.JPG (2.88 MB, Multiple views, 6 clicks)
File Type: jpg 100_3812.JPG (2.29 MB, Multiple views, 4 clicks)

Last edited by 1960HDGMC; December 14th, 2014 at 07:04 PM. Reason: forgot pictures
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  #30  
Old December 14th, 2014, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Correct GMC vs. Chevy Truck Wheels, 1960-66

So to first address Ken, if I count down to the 5th post you are referring to, its the one where I posted the light blue wheel, so if that is the right post you are referring to when you ask why that wheel is being referred to as a GMC wheel, all I can say is that I have no saved pictures and no discovered images anywhere on the internet nor any memories of seeing these specific wheels in my 20+ years of truck experience as being original equipment on any Chevrolet pickups in any model year. Does not mean they are GMC-specific in application, but certainly gives me reason to believe this to be the case, and am absolutely welcoming of anyone's challenging intel that can be dug up that might refute this hypothesis based on sheer observation. Currently, I have seen evidence to suggest that this same "squisher" style 3 clip wheel as seen in post #5 may have started with the "S" series trucks (58 & 59) and carried on to the "N" series in 60 & 61.

To address Greg, I already thought about that - all these wheels are date coded, so the ones on your 60 can be date checked to see if the wheels have a 1959 date on them or not, and same for these others which would need a 59 or later date as well. So the potter type wheels that are on your 60 started in 1947 with 6 clips, and were used throughout the 1950's - could be they were used on some 60-61 GMC's but I have not ever seen these in use on one I could positively ID to be original to the truck except your truck, so currently I am still of the opinion that the squisher style are the correct standard wheels for 60 & 61 and possibly 58 & 59 S series trucks too. The only pics I have seen of these squisher style non-potters wheel types on S series trucks have been 1959 specifically, so I am wondering if they are 59-61 more than 58-61. Just dont know yet. The potters wheel is what came from the factory on all 58 Cameos and I believe was also used on some 57's and 59 Apache's too. I have so far not seen any good evidence to suggest any 60-61 GMC's came with Potters wheel style wheels but certainly do not rule it out as a possibility.
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My 60-66 GMC Projects:

1960 Custom Cab 1000 SWB Big Window, 305A V6, factory PS & PB, Clock, Tach, Hood Jet, Radio and Hydramatic.

1966 Suburban Carryall w/ Clamshells, all 4 sliders, 351 V6 w/factory automatic, PS, PB and assembly-line installed A/C, hazard switch, deluxe heater, optional Ammeter & Oil Guages, 3 rows of seats, Custom Cab pkg, sway bar, 2 speedd wiper w/ windshield washers, radio.
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