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Transmissions and Rear Ends Three on the tree or four in the floor? Shift it all here.

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  #11  
Old June 3rd, 2016, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Another consideration is keeping the SM420 4 speed and adding a Road Rangers OD brownie box that fits between the bell housing and tranny. It is a 2 speed unit, basically Neutral and OD. You will have 2 sticks, but the tranny is only pushed back around 7.5 inches. $1624 for the unit.

http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...etainer-index/

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0o1o5W_f6o
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  #12  
Old June 4th, 2016, 01:37 AM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Quote:
Originally Posted by jturk View Post
Hey Chuck,
I've used the Aisin AR5 GM code MA5, it's used in the 4 cylinder Colorado and the 5 cylinder Hummers. Put it behind a GMC using an adapter from Novak. This tranny is very similar to the Jeep AX-15. It's gone into a 65 GMC and they are plentiful and fairly inexpensive. I've attached a few photos of it during setup of my build. Good luck with your build.Attachment 4709

Did this use the exact same adapter plate that the Jeep transmission to GM bellhousing uses? That transmission is nearly the same thing as the ax15, however I thought that every variation of these transmissions have different length input shafts.

Knowing what you did for your swap will increase the odds of finding one of these transmissions quite a bit, as I did not realize the Chevy Colorado Truck Transmissions would be easily adaptable with off-the-shelf parts to our bellhousings. Most of the internals are the same or nearly identical to the ax15, but the tail shaft housing is different I believe. How many splines are the clutch and input shaft?
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  #13  
Old June 4th, 2016, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

TJ, no SM420's here... I had an SM318 3 on the tree, but the 1st/reverse gear exploded on me... it had an sm318 originally, then a Camaro T5 2 owners ago, then an SM318 again from last owner, then I blew that up hauling a heavy load with a lead foot, my dad have me a free Chevy Vega Saginaw wide ratio 4 speed (1st gear around 3.31 or 3.34?), ran pretty great but a synchro and some bearings are worn.


With 275/60-15 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's (my favorite performance tire, no longer available in 15 inch!!!), 3.07 one legged Dana 44, Saginaw 4 speed 1:1 4th, 305D with HEI & 500cfm Holley, I was able to push it above 21mpg driving it very conservatively. I think I got even 23mpg highway with 6 passengers and camping gear in the hills& mountains of West Virginia! I have never heard of anyone from the 60-66 Yahoo group days having ever gotten that kind of fuel mileage in a GMC big block v6.
With the 351, I wonder if adapting a very small Rochester Quadrajet 4 bbl to the manifold would help it with better mileage? With the low limited rpm of these engines, the cfm requirements are not terribly high, where most 283/289/327/350/etc v8 performance applications rev much higher, requiring far more cfm. We make all the power down low, lots of grunt on the bottom!

I am hoping with an overdrive 5th, a deeper 1st gear when needed, & a tighter gear spread 2nd- through 5th with an AX15 2wd Jeep/Dakota trans, that I can get similar fuel mileage with this new former museum exhibit 351C that I just arranged a deal on.

Last edited by Chuck78; June 4th, 2016 at 02:02 AM.
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  #14  
Old June 4th, 2016, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Dang! 3.07 is steep! I have an Sm420 in my 3/4 ton with 4.11s. Tranny grinds into 4th, but haven't had issues yet...and I've lead footed 9,500 pounds. lol I'm going to do the road ranger setup as I love the fact of being able to split gears when I need to, and get an od out of it.
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1964 GMC 1500 305E/sm420 4 barrel intake mod and dual exhaust.
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1964 Chevy C20 292/SM420
1966 Chevy C10 292 hotrod 6/TKO600
1977 Chevy C20 572 BBC/TH400
1984 Chevy C30 292/SM465

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  #15  
Old June 4th, 2016, 11:59 AM
jturk jturk is offline
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Chuck,
The Aisin AR5-MA5 uses the same adapter from Novak as the AX-15. Also the tailshaft from the Chevy & GMC trucks is the same. The shaft changes if you go with the tranny from the Pontiac Solstice and the input uses a 26 spline shaft. One thing to remember this and the AX-15 aren't heavy duty trannys if you plan on doing some heavy hauling.
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  #16  
Old June 4th, 2016, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

I know it has no torque rating like aftermarket trannies do, and wasn't put behind any big engines (the 5 cylinder h3 (?) Hummer is probably the biggest vehicle it came in), but I keep reading reports of how much abuse these take from modified Jeeps, highly modified 500-1000hp turbo Supra's, even early Dodge hemi's:

"My Jeep has one, with a conversion to a 355 SBC. Beat the snot out of it, on and off road."

"I had a buddy that ran one behind his 4.2 in a Jeep on 33X15.5's. Woefully undergeared, the trans held up beautifully. U joints, however, didn't."

"Through experience I know that they handle some abuse, that's for sure. I'm considering another one for a future project. People are missing out on a great transmission."
(From the Jalopy Journal / H.A.M.B, in reference to swapping these into older GM vehicles)

"The AX15 is pretty stout, and as was mentioned, very popular with the off-road crowd and rock-crawlers.
The AX15 is also refered to as an 'R' series, used by Toyota. The hot-rod Supra guys are putting nearly a 1,000 hp into modified R154 units."

"Talk to gary73RR, he uses them in hemi aplications and recomended one from a dodge dakota for my early hemi"

"These guys here:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ax15.htm
Offer a kit to put that tranny behind a corvette LS1... Wow!
That would mean this beast is capable of handling 400 ft/lbs at least."

"The AX15 in my 95 Jeep has 264,000 miles on it and still works great. I like it better then the T-5's I've had in 5.0 Mustangs. I would like to put a AX15 in my 1947 Ford pick-up, but no kits are made to bolt it up to a Flathead."

"My experience with these trannys is they are rugged but poor shifters... Synchros can be balky, especially when gear oil is cold....Redline gear oil helps a lot but I wouldn't call them slick shifting."




The input shaft lengths vary with application but some swapping can be accomplished.
Here is some 'family' info:
AX15 = 7.875"
Pre 1995 R150\R151 = 6.5"
1996 up Toyota R series = 7.5"
87-92 Turbo Supra R154 = 7.25"
Toyota W series = 6.5"
Toyota G series = 6.5"
AR5 = 8.2"
MA5 = 8.2"

The Jeep/Dodge AX15 5-speed, the Jeep NV3550 5-speed, the Jeep NV1500, the Toyota R150F, R151F & R155F, the 87-92 Toyota Supra Turbo R154, the Isuzu AR5 and the Pontiac Solstice\Saturn Sky\Chevy Colorado\ GMC Canyon MA5 5-speeds all share the same case to bellhousing bolt pattern (Large Pattern). As such there are a number of possibilities that can be had when a 5-speed is desired

I was leaning toward the A833 MY6 / NP440 or possibly an NV4500, and would probably still be wanting an NV4500, but the gear spreads on this trans are the most appealing with its deeper not quite granny 1st, & tighter ratios 2nd thru od 5th.

I haven't looked at specs in a Richmond Gear tranny for ages, but in the early 2000's I recall them costing around $1900, so I'm sure they cost nearly the same as the TKO nowadays.

Last edited by Chuck78; June 5th, 2016 at 02:05 PM.
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  #17  
Old June 4th, 2016, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Wow... I looked at the Richmond Gear catalog, & I am impressed. If I wanted a 3.33 1st gear, the Super Street 5 speed (o.d. version of their 1:1 5th 5 speed) is very nice, same critical dimensions as a Super T10 / Muncie / Saginaw / A833-NP440.

The real gem was the 6 speed ROD transmission.... wow.
4.06 (or even 4 41) 1st gear options, 2.75 2nd, 1.99 3rd, 1.24 4th, 1:1 5th, .76 or .81 o.d....

I'd better look up the price tag so I can stop drooling. The only thing my limited perspective on gear ratios wonders is why they don't have a 3rd option for 4th gear in between those 2, as they have a ton of options for every other gear



EDIT - the only thing I am left wondering is if they have any other available shifter locations then at the very rear of the tail shaft housing. That would be a slight deal breaker, definitely a major deal-breaker if someone had a bench seat truck. They list a GM truck application in their fitment list separate from the others, maybe it has a different shifter location.
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Last edited by Chuck78; June 4th, 2016 at 02:53 PM.
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  #18  
Old June 4th, 2016, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Yeh your right there about the uses for the AR5. I checked long and hard before using one on my 65 and found people using them on GM LS engines and Dodge Hemis, so the GMC V6 shouldn't be a problem at all. Mine came from an 09 Colorado and only had 50,000 miles on it and only cost me $300. Had to have the driveshaft shortened and that was $100. It seems to be a really good option to give us the OD in 5th gear.
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  #19  
Old June 4th, 2016, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Yeh the Richmond is a great option. I checked it out prior to going with the AR5. However it is beaucoup bucks. It was just to much money for me at the time and I'm happy with my choice.
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  #20  
Old June 4th, 2016, 03:26 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: 5 speed/o.d. swap comparisons - WC/S10 T5 hybrid, NV4500, A833 MY6, Tremec 3550 Mustang

Oh wow... Richmond ROD 6 speed would be the ultimate, & they have it just 10 minutes down the street from me at Jeg's High Performance, FOR A MEASLY $4,450.00!!!!!!!

With the 3.37 1st gear, standard GM bell pattern and 1.125" 10 spline input, multiple internal rail shifter locations, and half the price of the Richmond 6 speed, the Tremec TKO500 seems like the best new aftermarket option. They are more sensitive to bellhousing alignment howeve, and you really need to use a runout gauge on the crank to make certain your bell is aligned within their spec. Offset dowels are available to do so.all transmissions suffer from excess wear if the bell input bearing retainer register is not perfectly centeted, but on the TKO's it makes the shifting obviously less smooth.

For the money I can justify spending, the Jeep&Dakota AX15 &it's sibling the Colorado/Hummer AR5 seem to be the best option. I am still considering an NV4500 for it's more guaranteed brute strength, & will snatch up any a833 my6 / np440 that I see in junkyards regardless of what I want to run in my GMC...

Last edited by Chuck78; June 4th, 2016 at 04:01 PM.
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