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Interiors, Dash, Lights and Electrical Everything Inside

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  #1  
Old May 5th, 2017, 03:18 AM
gmcdan1963 gmcdan1963 is offline
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Default '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

Hi all, I'll ask my question first, and post some back story to help clarify my intentions.

Does anyone know off the top of their heads, what Delphi Packard style wiring terminal is used on the gauge cluster pigtail? I'm specifically looking for the female round terminals that are in the gray circular plug.

I bought an American Autowire 22 circuit universal harness (new in the box) at an estate auction for a little less than 1/2 the best sale price I've seen. It uses GM wiring color coding and is top quality. I've used their direct fit harnesses before, and don't mind crimping the terminals myself.

I've completely removed all the rat's nest hack job wiring from previous owners (including some household wires and romex). None of the lights or gauges worked, and it's surprising the truck actually ran.

The wiring going to the gauge cluster was spliced into and I just want to replace it all. I've had issues with wires arcing and causing shorts under the dash when I was younger, and don't want the same experiences for the young owner of the truck.

I want to leave the wires from the new harness long enough that if the factory gauge cluster (and a spare from a '63 parts truck) don't work, I can cut the newly installed terminals and use the same wires to hook up after market gauges.
This would replace all the original wiring, so no splicing would be necessary and it would remove the 50+ year old wires that feel a little stiff when bending them.

My issue is finding the factory style terminals that fit. I'm most likely going to have to order the terminals online, and was hoping to get them on the fist attempt.

I already own the crimping tools, so that's not an issue.

Any leads would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Daniel
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  #2  
Old May 6th, 2017, 02:19 AM
James James is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

I do not know where to buy the female connector. However I did look on Newark's web site and one of these might work, they take the same size pin. It might not lock into the housing correctly.

http://www.newark.com/w/c/connectors...ket-connectors

Have you tried call American Autowire to see if they have any?
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  #3  
Old May 6th, 2017, 02:34 AM
James James is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

Here is another place that might have some:

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/...=0&pageSize=25

Keep us posted if you find some that works.
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  #4  
Old May 6th, 2017, 02:44 AM
gmcdan1963 gmcdan1963 is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

Thanks for reading and responding.
To clarify;
"The wiring going to the gauge cluster was spliced into and I just want to replace it all. I've had issues with wires arcing and causing shorts under the dash when I was younger, and don't want the same experiences for the young owner of the truck."
I introduced myself a couple week ago in the general topo section as a new member. At that time I stated that I'm helping a friends son a (Justin 16 years old) build the 1965 GMC. I have many classic vehicles projects of my own, and have done most of my own work on them.

In my '64 Chevy K10, (when I was around 19) I didn't have any extra money and had to live with the wiring that was in the truck when I bought it. When you turned the key, it only started the truck 1 out of 4 or 5 attempts. The previous owner had wired a horn button that was under the dash and went to the starter. It worked to start the truck, but he neglected to put a grommet through the firewall. It rubbed through the insulator and arced when I was starting the truck.

A couple months later, a terminal end from the after market gauge cluster failed (the wires pulled out, while the terminal stayed in place) this was for the volt meter and melted the wire rather than tripping a glass fuse in the original fuse block.

The third and final issues was when a chuck of the wiring insulation came off the wires to the heater and arced against something under the dash. It blacked the insulation on the inside of the firewall, but did not start a fire.

After that, I had to park the truck and saved for a wiring harness. I made the mistake of using the painless "direct fit" for 64-66 Chevy, at the time (maybe it's better now) it was basically a universal harness and I had to reuse half the stuff I expected to be in the kit. I tried to save a few bucks in the past and it always bits me in the end.

I don't want Justin to have to worry about wiring issues, or have problem like I did.

"I want to leave the wires from the new harness long enough that if the factory gauge cluster (and a spare from a '63 parts truck) don't work, I can cut the newly installed terminals and use the same wires to hook up after market gauges.
This would replace all the original wiring, so no splicing would be necessary and it would remove the 50+ year old wires that feel a little stiff when bending them."

It means just that. The wires were spiced into (don't ask me why) and it clean cut them about 8" from the gray plug that connects to the gauge cluster. When I bend the wires in half, they feel like the wires inside are made of fiberglass and in makes me want them completely replace with new wires rather than butt splicing new wires to the existing.
That's why I want the new factory style terminal ends. I can then replace all the existing wiring, and leave a little extra so I can have options to change gauges later without needing to add more wire if the factory gauges don't work.

The terminals in the factory plug for the gauge cluster do not lock in place like other delphi/packard terminals do. They just slide in and out of the gray plug.
The reference to delphi/packard style I referenced was the way the terminals crimp the wires. One folds into the wire, and a second crimp golds into the insulation. This in my opinion is 100 times better than the smash type wire terminals.

We had a specialty electrical supply shop that might of been helpful, but the closed a few years back.
The local chain auto parts store look at me like I'm speaking Chinese, after the point to the $20 import electrical repair kit they sell. Napa might be helpful, but it depends on his mood, and if he's there or if it's someone he has filling in for him.

Hope the back story helps, but all I really want is to know if anyone has a part number or name of the original style terminal ends (pictured) so I can crimp them to brand new wires.

Thanks,
Daniel
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  #5  
Old May 6th, 2017, 02:49 AM
gmcdan1963 gmcdan1963 is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

Wow, thanks James! I'm going to have to measure the gauge cluster post and see how close I can get with those.
The originals just slide in and out, so locking into place is done by the contact with the male end.

If there's a few different ones that might work, I'll order them and see what fits best.
I'll post what I figure out.

Thanks,
Daniel
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  #6  
Old May 6th, 2017, 03:53 AM
gmcdan1963 gmcdan1963 is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

"Have you tried call American Autowire to see if they have any?"

I have not.
They have products for Chevy trucks, but don't list the GMC trucks as a direct fit (unless it gets the common lump together with Chevy).

I don't know if they manufacturer the terminal ends themselves or if they buy for a supplier.

The hours for customer support are during my work day, and I have not tried to call. I can send an email, but it's not really tailored to a harness they sell to a direct fit vehicle so i don't know how much info they will have or how much effort they will put into it.
They sell top notch stuff in my opinion and will definitely give it a try. I don't mind doing the leg work if no one else has gone down this road before. I think part of my issue was terminology. I want to call the terminals and use the delphi/packard name and I wasn't having any luck. With the second link you provided, it had some promising options without the term "terminal".

If anyone else has any input, fell feel to chime in. I'll take whatever leads I can get.

Thanks,
Daniel
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  #7  
Old May 6th, 2017, 06:22 AM
AZKen AZKen is online now
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

I'll try a different approach. Deleted my suggested Companies who have bullet contacts. Seems no interest. First: The female contacts in your connector shell must have a retention device otherwise the male pins on the printed circuit on the back of the cluster would push them out upon insertion. I suspect that the reason you pushed one contact out forward is that the crimp end is shaped such that it can't be pulled out the back. In other words, retained. It should be simple to find the proper size bullet that has a similar flat crimp...or make it flat with a pair of pliers. It ain't rocket surgery.
I believe you can find a bullet contact that will work. First you have to measure the OD of the contacts on the printed circuit as you have said. You would need to provide that info for any of us to help find an aftermarket part. Otherwise getting links and companies is just a waste of time. This will tell you what size you need and if the amp .093 contacts that were linked will work or one of the ones in the companies I mentioned will work. (.156, .159,.180) Obviously the wire has to be pulled thru the shell, then crimped in such a way as to create a shape with will not get pushed out. Then pulled back into the shell. You do not need to be picky about what kind of crimp in a automotive application. They won't come loose. Get the size first and worry about the crimp when parts are received.
Does not matter what you call them..Packard 56, Amp, Delphi..as long as they work. I.E. fit the PC contacts and fit the shell.

Another option is forget the shell, use an insulated bullet female on each wire and strain relieve the wire bundle in a wire clamp attached to the back of the cluster. You can provide a long length of "service loop" to accommodate this method and it will also provide for the extra wire for future gauges. Not being original in a place where no one can see is OK.
This is of course if you can not make the shell work.

It is nice of you to help the younger guy like I'm doing for you. (that's a joke)
I did check AAW to see if they sell the contact before I first posted. Didn't see any. A call or email would be a good idea. Their harness is the best in the business as you know. Very complete Classic Update Series kits. Many extra parts. They are also the highest price. Like buying Steele rubber over "off shore" rubber.

On a strange brainstorm note: It may be possible to cut off the old contacts with about a 1/2" pigtail and strip the insulation off the 1/2" to bare copper. Then crimp/solder a butt splice to new wire. It is the old insulation that is stiff, not the stranded conductor within. That idea has a big problem: The splice may interfere with the shell. Not sure. May make you think about other ideas.

Last edited by AZKen; May 6th, 2017 at 09:56 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2017, 06:56 AM
gmcdan1963 gmcdan1963 is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

I'm not asking for anyone to do the work for me, I'm asking if anyone has been down this road and has already found a suitable replacement or an original part number already. (hence my original post when I asked if anyone knows off the top of their head). I know how to measure the male post on the gauge and the inside diameter of the gray connector to figure out what terminals might work.

My issue was after working long days at work, I could only think of the term "terminals" and was finding the generic basic; male, female, bullet and butt connectors. When I added Delphi Packard to my searches it gave me some options with the crimp style I wanted, but not round.

The links James listed gave me other terminal that I didn't see in my google search.
The truth is, I could have made the dozen of these already from something close that is in the link James listed, in less time than it took to write what I wanted to do with them.
At this point I'll order some of the different sizes from the link, and see what I like best. Maybe I will find something that works without modifying but it's not a big deal if they need to be.

I had seen some wires that are greenish from oxidation on other parts of junk harness and it wouldn't surprise me if these are doing the same and I don't want to solder to the existing wires.
I have opened the crimped terminals and reused when I was broke, but that's not what I want to do here. It tends to stress the terminals and about half of the crimped "wings" (for a lack of a better term) tend to break off.

I don't like the smash type terminals and I don't think they will fit in the gray connector anyways.

Just so you know what the gray connector looks like I've attached another picture.

It has an open slot down the side for the wires to slide in and out, and the terminal moves freely inside the connector. There are no retaining tabs on the terminals like the male and female Delphi connectors GM used. That is what I mean by "not retained". The simple fact that the terminal is wider at the end keeps them in the gray connector ("retained" if it makes you feel better), so any type of terminal that fits inside the gray connector and over the male posts will work without concern for retaining.

I appreciate the help, but I don't want to waste your (or my) time.

I'm new here and people recommend details in posts, but next time I might try an approach like; Does anyone know a part number for these gauge cluster terminals? With an attached picture. The post was derailed on a tangent with the details.

Thanks,
Daniel
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  #9  
Old May 7th, 2017, 07:21 PM
AZKen AZKen is online now
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

You are correct, it was hard to figure out what we could provide, as to a part number, with all the details about your life at 19. You, yourself called it a "back story". That was the tangent. So we began giving companies to check. A few questions were asked about size and such. This is how a forum works. This is how you try and help someone. I hope you really didn't expect to find someone who found the actual original part number from 1965 that had the crimp you like. We wanted to find you a functional replacement, so we needed info and were trying to cut out the personal details in your posts.

It does not seem like helping someone, but next time you ask, we will just say "No, no part number" if that's what you want.

It seems like you have an ego chip on your shoulder. Resistant to help or answering questions. That won't work. I don't have to have actually fixed that particular connector problem to be able to help you. Experience allows me to suggest fixes if I have a willing person. We are hear to help 6066 owners. Lets reset here. Remember, after all that blogging, you never even said what size you need. You just asked for a part number for a female contact for a 1965 GMC gauge cluster. That's like asking for THE part number for a screw and hope it is still identified by a 52 year old part number and not giving us the thread size and length. I hope, as you continue to help this young guy, you can be more flexible and realize that many times there will only be a suitable replacement part. That part number may have nothing to do with a 1965 GMC. We can not give you that suggested replacement part number until we have pertinent info.
Hope you find a contact.

Last edited by AZKen; May 7th, 2017 at 07:45 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2017, 08:27 PM
gmcdan1963 gmcdan1963 is offline
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Default Re: '65 Dash Cluster Wiring Terminals

You asked for additional back story in your first post; the second post of the thread (you have since deleted it) and now say I distracted the thread with additional back story you asked for.

I don't have an ego, but I'm not helpless either.
I asked "if anyone knows off the top of their heads" and "Any leads would be greatly appreciated."

I was happy with the links James provided (I didn't find them on my own) and was following that lead, but you continued to ask for more so I complied.

If a moderator decides the posts are not related, feel free to delete or modify as desired. At this point the only thing the back a forth is accomplishing, is keeping the post active for others that might have an answer to the original question. (or on the flip side; discourage anyone that might have a part number they had success with because they don't want to get in the middle).

I have found a couple on the links James provided that might work without modifying, and I'll order them when I find a supplier that will take a small order (less than 10000).

Thanks,
Daniel
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