Newer Oils in Older Engines

[FetchMeAPepsi]

When I work on Cecilia I think, "What is keeping me from taking this from here to texas?"
Thats how I figure out the next thing to tackle.

I'll be working on fixing her main leaks (and her door, but that's another story) for most of the summer as soon as I'm able to get on the ground again. I'm replacing her transmission, transfer case, and differential oils with Redline brand gear oils because Jay Leno recommended them and I got the part numbers from the company. They're pretty nice.

The engine oils though, I'm thinking of going with Rotella Diesel oil. It has zinc in it and I can get it in the recommended w20 that the manual calls for.

Has anyone else used Rotella in their engines? If not, what are you using? Additives?

[bigblockv6]

I'm using Rotella 15w-40 in my 478M as the breakin oil and I think I'll continue using this oil for good. Pete Chronis Northern Cal. 68 GMC KM-2500 478M V6

[Corts60]

I just use a zinc additive with standard oil. There is a cam break-in additive (cant remember the name right now) that is very rich in zinc and I just add a small bottle every oil change. I don't run diesel oil in my gas engines because it is usually more expensive, usually comes in gallons only, and viscosities are usually 40w or above.

[George Bongert]

Hello again FetchMeAPepsi!

In regards as to what oil to use, I have to recommend Synthetic oil, (it certainly won't hurt your engine) and I am currently using Mobil 1 15w50 in my 1999 Pontiac Bonneville (3.8 V-6, never rebuilt) with 280,575 miles on it. I go five to six thousand miles between oil and filter changes, and only use about a half quart of oil. Synthetic is a bit more expensive, but the extended mileage between changes more than makes up for the extra cost, and there is an added benefit (at least in my neck of the woods) of easier starting in winter months since synthetic oils don't thicken up like regular engine oils do. I have been using synthetic oil for several years now, and I will not go back to using regular engine oil since I feel synthetic is far superior to regular oil. Of course, these are just my thoughts, and others may disagree with me as to the benefits of using synthetic oil. I am a very picky individual when it comes to engine care, and if I don't believe in using it in my own engine, I'm certainly not going to recommend it to someone else.

[bigblockv6]

Synthetic oil is just fine specially in newer engines with roller cams, older engines such as the GMC V6 with flat tappet cams will need zinc additive added to the oil or the results may end up with a flat cam.

[George Bongert]

Not to start an argument here, but my 99 Bonneville is not equipped with a roller cam, and I have had no problems using synthetic oil, and I do not believe the camshaft in my engine is any harder, or had any different type of heat treatment than a camshaft from a 1960's era engine. In fact, the last 75,000 miles my car has been driven has been with synthetic oil. In fact If I had an engine of that vintage (1960 and on), I would not be afraid to use synthetic oil in it, even without the zinc additive, since synthetic oils have better lubricating qualities than regular engine oils. Case in point being, synthetic oils are not recommended for use until new or rebuilt engines are thoroughly broken in, since new piston rings do not break in properly due to the the excellent lubricating qualities of synthetic oils. Again, just my opinion, and not meant to offend or upset anyone in this forum.

[bigblockv6]

If you do some research you will find out that roller lifters were used on the 3.8 V6engines from 1986 on up. I've experieced a flat cam in my Jeep at around 3000 miles after installation, only used a zinc oil during initial break in. That point on I have used oil with zinc or poured in the additive, there's no need to take chances when so simple just to spend a few extra dollars for the additive or an oil that has it.

[George Bongert]

Greetings bigblockv6!

I did the research you suggested, and indeed, my 99 Bonneville (3.8 V-6) does have a roller cam as you said. I also visited the official Mobil 1 Website, and came up with some interesting information regarding Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil and flat tappet camshafts.

Quote from the website:
Question:

"Does Mobil 1 contain the Additive for Flat Tappet Cams?"

Mobil 1's Answer:

For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of synthetic oils which are higher in phosphorous than API SN/ILSAC GF-5 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50 (1,200 ppm), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm), and High Mileage 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40 (900 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SN/ISLAC GF-5 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800ppm)."

This is a direct verbatim quote from Mobil 1's website which was updated in April of 2012.

My interpretation of this is that there is no reason not to use (or fear using) Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic Oil in a flat tappet engine where cam wear may be a concern. As I stated previously, I personally would have no reservations using Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic Oil in any engine that I would personally own, whether it would be equipped with a flat tappet cam, or a roller cam. Thanks for urging me to do a little research. I got a little education on both the GM 3.8 V-6, and the subject of Synthetic Oil vs ordinary engine oil. I have bookmarked Mobil 1's website for future reference since it addresses many more engine and lubrication issues than just those of flat tappet camshaft engines.

[GMC-HDV6]

Wow those are crappy numbers I run AMSOIL high zinc formulas. I think they are like 1500-2500 for numbers actually maybe more so.

Mike

[FetchMeAPepsi]

Mike, does it say the numbers on the bottle? I'll be picking up my fluids this weekend and I'd like to compare.

[GMC-HDV6]

I guess I was miss remembering it was 1265-1575ppm its been a while.

Amsoil high zinc oil:
http://www.amsoil.lube-direct.com/2011/07/high-zinc-oil-amsoil/

AMSOIL High Zinc Oil Recommendations:

Z-ROD™ 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRT)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1320

Zinc Level (ppm) 1440

Z-ROD™ 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1320

Zinc Level (ppm) 1440

Premium Protection 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AMO)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1265

Zinc Level (ppm) 1378

Premium Protection 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ARO)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1266

Zinc Level (ppm) 1379

Series 3000 5W-30Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil (HDD)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1266

Zinc Level (ppm) 1379

15W-40 Synthetic HeavyDuty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil (AME)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1267

Zinc Level (ppm) 1377

Dominator® 5W-20 Synthetic Racing Oil (RD20)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1424

Zinc Level (ppm) 1575

Dominator® 10W-30Synthetic Racing Oil (RD30)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1424

Zinc Level (ppm) 1575

Dominator® 15W-50Synthetic Racing Oil (RD50)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1424

Zinc Level (ppm) 1575

SAE 60 Super Heavy Weight Synthetic Racing Oil (AHR)

Phosphorus Level (ppm) 1265

Zinc Level (ppm) 1375

I hope this helps I added the link above to show where I got my info.
Mike

[FetchMeAPepsi]

Thanks Mike. I'll take a look at those and add them to my options.

[GMC-HDV6]

I been using the Premium Protection 10w-40, 20w-50, and the SAE60 in my old vintage industrial and hipo engines for about 12 years now with good luck.

Just passing what I learned along to others
Mike

[BobBray]

I use Valvoline Racing 30W. No problems, plenty of lumps on my camshaft.

[TommyG]

A little late to this post but I just put straight Rotella SAE-30 in my '63 1000 recently (305E V6). Most of the temps I deal with are 35F (winter) - 95F (summer).

Any thoughts on if that oil choice is a good or bad idea? I thought I had been using it on this truck but thinking back on it I have a feeling I might have bought it for a bunch of old motorcycles I've been working on at one point...

Thanks,

Tom

[pasadenajim]

Hey "Get ME", if you would, pls keep me (us) informed on this issue. I, for one, will be looking to put fire to the 305 within the next 5 weeks or so and would like to know how you come out on your oil selection and how it works for you. Thanks, Jim Hyde, Phx AZ

[pasadenajim]

"Fetch Me" another question for you, what are your thoughts on Aluminum 2 Row crossflow radiators for these 305s?? Remember, I live in Phx AZ and in the summertime it is HOT out here so I gotta keep this thing as cool as possible.

[FetchMeAPepsi]

About oils for now Im running 10w40 with STP zinc additive. Rotella is probably what Id go with if it were less expensive but wow oil is crazy high now. Thanks Obama! :goodjob:

"Fetch Me" another question for you, what are your thoughts on Aluminum 2 Row crossflow radiators for these 305s?? Remember, I live in Phx AZ and in the summertime it is HOT out here so I gotta keep this thing as cool as possible.

I havent got to my exhaust yet. Its still two stock rams horns bolted to a piece of stock broken off pipe under the cab. Smells like crap when you start her, but I've almost decided I don't want to bend any pipe till I got the motor out and worked on then back in again.
Right now my plan is to take off the rams horns, sandblast them and coat them with Calyx manifold dressing. Then Ill reinstall them using manifold gaskets coated with red RTV silicone for a better seal like they do racing engines.
Then ill run 2 1/2 inch aluminum pipe with a crossover and dual mufflers as quiet as I can get them.

The way i see it the aluminum will be lighter and last longer without rusting. The expansion of aluminum bolted to iron might be a problem but I think they put adapter gaskets on for the expansion so it shouldnt be too bad. Someone else might weigh in on it.




btw
Shell Rotella has 1400 PPM of Zinc, Valvoline Racing Oil is 1700 PPM, and Chevron Delo all meet the minimum for use with Flat Tappet Cams, and are a cheap alternative for breaking in a motor. Red Line also has a ZDDP addititvie that runs about 12.00 and treats 12 quarts

[Quigley]

Anybody using or know anything about Chevron Delo 400LE.I have been using it in a ISX Cummins for 900000 miles with no problems.20000 mile service intervals and NO consumption. I am just breaking in a 305E and was thinking about changing to this oil. Any drawbacks? Thanks,Dave:D

[Rockdriller]

Greetings bigblockv6!

I did the research you suggested, and indeed, my 99 Bonneville (3.8 V-6) does have a roller cam as you said. I also visited the official Mobil 1 Website, and came up with some interesting information regarding Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil and flat tappet camshafts.

Quote from the website:
Question:

"Does Mobil 1 contain the Additive for Flat Tappet Cams?"

Mobil 1's Answer:

For older, flat tappet engines where wear may be more of a concern, we offer a number of synthetic oils which are higher in phosphorous than API SN/ILSAC GF-5 oils. These include Mobil 1 15W-50 (1,200 ppm), Mobil 1 0W-40 (1,000 ppm), and High Mileage 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40 (900 ppm). For all newer engines and flat tappet engines in normal service, API SN/ISLAC GF-5 oils are preferred for better fuel economy and for the protection of catalytic systems with lower phosphorous (800ppm)."

This is a direct verbatim quote from Mobil 1's website which was updated in April of 2012.

My interpretation of this is that there is no reason not to use (or fear using) Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic Oil in a flat tappet engine where cam wear may be a concern. As I stated previously, I personally would have no reservations using Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic Oil in any engine that I would personally own, whether it would be equipped with a flat tappet cam, or a roller cam. Thanks for urging me to do a little research. I got a little education on both the GM 3.8 V-6, and the subject of Synthetic Oil vs ordinary engine oil. I have bookmarked Mobil 1's website for future reference since it addresses many more engine and lubrication issues than just those of flat tappet camshaft engines.
I sure might be missing something.......but Mobils rep seems to be "skirting" the issue at hand here in his response....Scuff and Friction Wear to cam lobes & tappets and rockers & valve stems.
Zinc.....Zinc, Zinc and more Zinc.

At least that's what I'm thinkin.