One Ton Suburban

[Ed Snyder]

As promised in the thread about the Wichita Mini-Meet, I'm starting a new one about the 1965 one ton GMC Suburban my Dad bought new 49 years ago and just turned over to me. While I'm too old now to own it for another 49 years myself, I do hope to enjoy it for many more years before passing it on to my own son.

Time permitting, I'll post various photos and descriptions, starting with some exterior photos taken at Mom & Dad's house in Wichita. Click on thumbnails for enlarged views.

As mentioned previously, this truck began life as a panel truck with rear doors, but was converted into a Suburban with liftgate/tailgate and four rows of seats to accommodate our 11-person family (I have 4 brothers and 4 sisters). The standard Suburban and half ton panel share the same 7-1/2' body shell. The one ton panel has a body 3' longer at 10-1/2'. Actual overall length is 19'-6". Weight is 6400 pounds. GVW is 8800 pounds.

[Foley]

This will be a good thread Ed. There are a lot of great stories about the foresight your dad brought with him when he ordered this Suburban, and the modifications that were made along the line. Keep the stories and pix coming. It was also a pleasure to meet your father, and the other members of your family there in Wichita.

Foley

[Ed Snyder]

All eleven of us managed to survive thousands of miles in this truck without seatbelts or air conditioning, driving all over the Colorado Rockies and trips to Indiana and New York to visit relatives.

Here are a few interior photos:

[6066gmcguy]

That was before we had Global warming......and Death waiting around every corner.

Great Pics, I always enjoy see this Suburban.

[Ed Snyder]

The 351C has had nothing but high-zinc Amsoil 10W40 in it since about 1973. Amsoil gear lube in the trans, Watson, and rear end too. I had to add a quart after 1200 miles on the road. 600 miles later, after I got home, it's now down a half quart. I didn't think that rate of consumption was too bad for having 154,000 miles on it.

Here are a couple of engine photos. Note the chrome plated air cleaner and valve covers. They were on a demonstrator at the dealer. At the end of the model year one of the salesmen gave them to Dad -- no charge! I've got the originals too, along with other miscellaneous parts like two original hubcaps.

[Hobie]

Simply awesome!

[Leeadamj6]

That's great. I think it's especially cool that you have your own memories of that truck. Your son will be proud to own that piece of family history someday. Those windows and and backseats are great. Look forward to more pics.

[Ed Snyder]

Dad drew the windows he wanted, and had them made by Young Windows in Pennsylvania. They're still in business today: http://www.youngwindows.com/. They came in a wooden crate. In the photo below you can see that the front half slides to the rear. The rear half is fixed, similar to a regular Suburban of that era. The windows have a separate track for the sliding screens which are easily removable. The minimum order for the rubber extrusion required for installing the windows was about twice what was needed, so now I've got three boxes of window rubber that I'll probably never use.

Dad felt that cutting that much sheet metal out of the side panels would weaken the roof support too much, so he had four supports made out of square tubing to place between the windows. You can see one of them in the photo.

There weren't enough beds for all of us in the 24' Avion trailer Dad used to tow with the Suburban, so some of us boys usually ended up sleeping in the truck instead. The screens were much appreciated, letting summer breezes blow through while keeping bugs out.

[Ed Snyder]

The predecessor to the GMC Suburban was actually another Suburban, but not what you might be thinking of. It was a 9-passenger Plymouth wagon that Dad bought new in 1957. By the time it was 8 years old, it was in serious need of replacement for two reasons: our family was out-growing it and, even with an add-on aftermarket transmission oil cooler, the Torqueflite transmission kept burning up while trying to tow the 5000 pound Avion travel trailer with it, especially up mountain grades in Colorado and other Western states. I remember being stranded for a few days in Baker, Oregon, one year while getting that trans overhauled yet again.

The '57 Plymouth Suburban was pretty cool with the rear-facing third seat and the power rear window that rolled down into the tailgate, unlike the Fords and Chevys with their old-fashioned liftgates.

[GMCDAC]

This GMC is so amazing I just don't know what to comment on! Did Darryl Starbird do all of the customizing that your Dad wanted done, like the window installation and interior reinforcement?

DAC

[Funky61]

Great History Ed and those back seats still look fantastic!

[Ed Snyder]

Doug -- although Dad was not a welder or a body & fender man, he did as much of the work as he could on the conversion. I helped him with a lot of it. He cut out the openings for the windows with a saber saw and installed the windows. He gave me the two special hand tools for slipping the windows into the rubber extrusions and inserting the locking bead into the rubber. He installed the supports between the windows after having flat plates welded to the tops and bottoms of those square tubes.

Since the half ton panel and regular Suburban share the same body shell, they're both equipped for installation of either the "barn doors" or the liftgate/tailgate. However, the one ton panel was equipped only for the doors. Since Dad wanted the liftgate/tailgate combo, he had to do a lot of modifications like creating the hinge pockets for the tailgate hinges. Darryl Starbird did the welding on that part of the project. For anyone unfamiliar with Darryl, check out http://www.darrylstarbird.com/starbird.htm. He got his start as a body shop owner in Wichita. I found Darryl's quote from 1968 when Dad took the Suburban back to him for enlarging the rear wheel openings -- $300 -- what a bargain!

Henry -- I was pretty surprised at the condition of those three rear seats. What helped was that Dad stored them in the basement one by one as us kids grew up and moved away. I think the last one went down in the basement about 30 years ago. Two of my brothers helped me carry them up the steps, clean them, and reinstall them the day before the Wichita Mini-Meet.

Here's a photo of my parents. Dad will be 90 on Pearl Harbor Day and Mom will be 87 on New Years Day. Their daily drivers are a 2005 turbocharged Subaru Outback that Dad calls his "closet WRX" and a 2012 Fiat 500, both with 5 speed manual transmissions. Great role models for us kids!

[FetchMeAPepsi]

How did I miss this thread for TWO pages? Ed these are great pictures and a really fantastic story. Five star thread! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Ed Snyder]

Thanks for the "thumbs-up", Fetch. Too bad you couldn't make it to the Wichita mini-meet to see it. I'm afraid you're going to have to travel to Oregon to see it in person now!

If anybody out there wants to see photos of anything in particular on this truck, let me know.

I might try scanning some of the documentation on it and posting it here. The print may be too small to read for those with small screens though.

[FetchMeAPepsi]

It might be asking much but maybe run her out to some old historic houses or buildings and take some pics like Jolly does from time to time. I'd like to see that :giggity:

[6066gmcguy]

Me too, pics of GMCs in by old historic houses or buildings are fun to take, Most of the time I do it on the way to ro from a show, but some times I just go out for a drive to take photos.

[GMCNUT]

The 351C has had nothing but high-zinc Amsoil 10W40 in it since about 1973. Amsoil gear lube in the trans, Watson, and rear end too. I had to add a quart after 1200 miles on the road. 600 miles later, after I got home, it's now down a half quart. I didn't think that rate of consumption was too bad for having 154,000 miles on it.

Here are a couple of engine photos. Note the chrome plated air cleaner and valve covers. They were on a demonstrator at the dealer. At the end of the model year one of the salesmen gave them to Dad -- no charge! I've got the originals too, along with other miscellaneous parts like two original hubcaps.

So, as a Suburban lover, this truck is like the holy grail its so cool and has such great history, but I have to question the chrome valve covers and oil bath because if they were on a demonstrator truck which was a new vehicle on the lot for sale at the time, then it would seem there would have to be evidence of other chrome sets somewhere else in the truck world if they were available in chrome plate finish as a GM manufactured part vs something the dealer sent out and had plated - so if no one has ever seen a set or knows anyone who has ever seen another set aside from these then does it stand to reason this was a strange one-off plating job by the dealer?

[Ed Snyder]

I'm pretty sure the GMC dealer in Wichita (Sauder-Lygrisse) had those valve covers and air cleaner chrome plated at a local shop.

[GMCNUT]

I'm pretty sure the GMC dealer in Wichita (Sauder-Lygrisse) had those valve covers and air cleaner chrome plated at a local shop.

Thats what I thought - love the odd ball stuff dealers could and would do back then. Lots of special cool things to like about your dad's suburban

[Ed Snyder]

Dad spent lots of time doing things to his Suburban that aren't readily apparent. The 3-way valve in the floor to the left of the driver's seat (like a lot of trucks with auxiliary fuel tanks have) besides switching fuel supply from one tank to the other, also simultaneously switches electrically from the sender in one tank to the sender in the other tank. And when you pull out the big knob on the dash to shift the Watson box into overdrive, it also switches a little box in the speedometer cable so that the speedometer is still accurate. Dad also installed a transistorized ignition unit which he hid behind one of the triangular "wings" in front of the top of the core support.

[GMCDAC]

Bumping this to the top, Ed. I hope while you are posting old pics that you may to be able to keep adding to this amazing truck's story!

DAC

[Ed Snyder]

Bumping this to the top, Ed. I hope while you are posting old pics that you may be able to keep adding to this amazing truck's story!

DAC

I'll be sure to do that next week, Doug, when I get back home. I spent the day today driving 700 miles from Oregon to LA in our son's '64 Chevy Suburban. I had it up there to do a little work on it for him. My wife and I are spending Thanksgiving down here with him and our 9 year old granddaughter.

[Phat 66]

I'll be sure to do that next week, Doug, when I get back home. I spent the day today driving 700 miles from Oregon to LA in our son's '64 Chevy Suburban. I had it up there to do a little work on it for him. My wife and I are spending Thanksgiving down here with him and our 9 year old granddaughter.
Great Memories

[Ed Snyder]

Bumping this to the top, Ed. I hope while you are posting old pics that you may to be able to keep adding to this amazing truck's story!

DAC

Well, Doug, I got a surprise in the mail yesterday. Along with a birthday card, my Dad sent a bunch of photos from when the one ton Suburban was new in 1965. The first batch, included in this post, shows the original white wheels with 8.00 x 17.5 tires on them. I had forgotten how far out those hubcaps stuck. They sure look vulnerable to curb rash. Note that one of the photos shows the fresh cut holes for the windows prior to window installation, and the original rear doors removed prior to liftgate/tailgate installation. Dad's in a couple of the photos. He was 40 years old in May of 1965 when he bought it. The conversion from a panel into a Suburban was done in the summer of 1965, right after he bought it.

Click on a thumbnail to enlarge it. I'll include more photos in another post.

[flyingA66]

Ed, what a cool thread! I think your dad is a genius, that truck, like your dad, is one of a kind.

[TJ's GMC]

What an Awesome thread Ed! :thumbsup: That is some super Neat family history. Always makes me wish my grandfather owned a 60's GMC or Chevy that I could preserve. But I'm making do with the ones I have. And it was Awesome being able to see this truck in person.

[Funky61]

Great historic Photos Ed!
Now what became of those Barn Doors?
I'm betting you still have them stored.

[GMCDAC]

Well, Doug, I got a surprise in the mail yesterday. Along with a birthday card, my Dad sent a bunch of photos from when the one ton Suburban was new in 1965. The first batch, included in this post, shows the original white wheels with 8.00 x 17.5 tires on them. I had forgotten how far out those hubcaps stuck. They sure look vulnerable to curb rash. Note that one of the photos shows the fresh cut holes for the windows prior to window installation, and the original rear doors removed prior to liftgate/tailgate installation. Dad's in a couple of the photos. He was 40 years old in May of 1965 when he bought it. The conversion from a panel into a Suburban was done in the summer of 1965, right after he bought it.

Click on a thumbnail to enlarge it. I'll include more photos in another post.

Thank-you Ed, for the update, and especially to your Dad for getting the history of his wonderful creation compiled! I've been looking forward to seeing more and my amazement keeps growing! Flyinga66 said it right, your Dad is a genius in the choice of truck, planning and execution of this project that continues to serve your family!

Hope your folks are doing well and you had a happy birthday!

DAC

[Ed Snyder]

Great historic Photos Ed!
Now what became of those Barn Doors?
I'm betting you still have them stored.

Dad sold the barn doors back to the dealer, Henry. What I do have, however, is that single "bucket" seat that you can see in one of the photos. Dad mounted it on casters and put a slip cover on it. Still looks new underneath.

[Ed Snyder]

Here's another batch of photos. Dad had lots of trouble with the 8.00 x 17.5 tires, especially when towing our 24' Avion travel trailer. So when the 12 x 16.5 tires came out, he had the rear wheel openings enlarged to match the fronts so he could fit a set of them. Nationally famous auto customizer Darryl Starbird got his start with an auto body shop in Wichita. Darryl did the work by cutting the openings and reinforcing the cut edges with steel tubing welded to the sheet metal. The 9.75 x 16.5 wheels have enough offset that the hub caps sit a few inches back in them, fully protecting them from curb rash.

If you've never heard of Darryl Starbird, check out http://www.darrylstarbird.com/index.html. Darryl also did some of the work converting the rear doors to tailgate/liftgate.

[Ed Snyder]

Here's the last batch of photos I received yesterday from Dad and Mom. The first one shows the 24' Avion hitched to the Suburban in their driveway, ready for another vacation trip from Wichita to Colorado, or perhaps Indiana and New York to visit relatives. The second and third photos show Mom by the Suburban. The last one shows Mom, her sister, two of their cousins, and lots of kids. I'm the tallest one in the photo. My eight younger siblings and some cousins are in there too.

[TJ's GMC]

Very neat photos!

[Ed Snyder]

I took the one ton Suburban to our annual big show in the park last weekend. Here are a few photos from the Show-N-Shine. Total attendance was about 500 vehicles. My two granddaughters are in the first photo. We rode around in it during the evening Cruise too. My son and his daughter rode all the way in the back in the fourth row of seats.

[FetchMeAPepsi]

I took the one ton Suburban to our annual big show in the park last weekend. Here are a few photos from the Show-N-Shine. Total attendance was about 500 vehicles. My two granddaughters are in the first photo. We rode around in it during the evening Cruise too. My son and his daughter rode all the way in the back in the fourth row of seats.


Cute little helpers you got there! That suburban should have won 1st place. Judges didn't know what they were lookin at! :thumbsup:

[Funky61]

That's a "Long" ride Ed; very nice!

[bobdylan]

Very nice you should use it for a limo service.

[GMCDAC]

I took the one ton Suburban to our annual big show in the park last weekend. Here are a few photos from the Show-N-Shine. Total attendance was about 500 vehicles. My two granddaughters are in the first photo. We rode around in it during the evening Cruise too. My son and his daughter rode all the way in the back in the fourth row of seats.

Very cool you are getting to show the one-ton off! I like that second to the last pic---it looks like those nice rides in the foreground have lined up to admire your Dad's creation!

That looks like a show I could enjoy. Walking around in that nice grassy area would be cooler than big asphalt parking lots and easier on the feet and legs too!

Thanks for the update, Ed!

DAC

[TJ's GMC]

Looks like you all had a great time Ed! Wish I could have made it to that show, but work was in the way again.

[bendim]

Awesome! :D

[Ed Snyder]

Awesome! :D

Thanks! And welcome to the forum.

Looks like you're a new member from the United Kingdom. We have (or had anyway) a couple of other members on the forum from the UK. Haven't heard from them in awhile.

Planning on buying a 60-66 GMC someday?

[bendim]

Thanks! And welcome to the forum.

Looks like you're a new member from the United Kingdom. We have (or had anyway) a couple of other members on the forum from the UK. Haven't heard from them in awhile.

Planning on buying a 60-66 GMC someday?

Hey, well I do like them, my next door neighbour has one and it's been all done up, look's amazing, so I thought I'd have a look around, so maby someday I may own one :) Living in Central London doesn't help either because of the roads and it's a big car!

[Ed Snyder]

Took the one ton Suburban out for a drive today, looking for a photo op. Found a good one in front of the Nunan House, not too far from where I live. See http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/635-N-Oregon-St-Jacksonville-OR-97530/48322149_zpid/

[Funky61]

Great shot Ed and a gorgeous home too!
Looks like you should charge to "Tour" the grounds and keep the tips.

[TJ's GMC]

Nice photo Ed!

[HOTRODJOHN]

Ed, I don't even remember seeing one, although maybe I didn't notice. Really neat piece of history that no one thinks about. Nice to see those photos. John

[Ed Snyder]

Ed, I don't even remember seeing one, although maybe I didn't notice. Really neat piece of history that no one thinks about. Nice to see those photos. John

Thanks, John. I took it out again today to a free show held annually at Lost Creek Lake, about a 45 minute drive from my house. Coincidentally, a friend of mine for the last 30 years pulled in right behind me. He's a member of the local Z Car Club. He's got the white 300 ZX, parked next to two 240Zs owned by another club member, both of which have V8 conversions.

See photos below:

[TJ's GMC]

Cool Ed! Wish I coulda made it out there today. haha

[GMCDAC]

Hi Ed, thanks for keeping this thread updated! Glad you are having a good time with your time capsule one-ton! Hope all is well.

DAC

[Ed Snyder]

In an earlier post on this thread, I mentioned that Darryl Starbird had done some of the work on the one ton Suburban. He helped Dad with the conversion of the rear doors to liftgate/tailgate when the truck was new in 1965, then enlarged the rear wheel openings for the 12 x 16.5 tires three years later.

I recently came across an interesting link by a guy who's apparently obsessed with Darryl Starbird and Darryl's most famous custom car. Check out http://thepredictaproject.org/. Lots of reading material under the "Menu" link. In one photo you can see a diorama of Darryl's first shop in Wichita where the work was done on the one ton Suburban.

I had the privilege of touring Darryl's museum http://darrylstarbird.com/ in Oklahoma a few years ago. The Predicta http://www.darrylstarbird.com/museum_cars/predicta.jpg is on display there.

[GMCDAC]

Those are some interesting links showing the skill of a great craftsman! I had no idea that the "Predicta" went through so many rebuilds. Although as a model building kid I wasn't crazy about "way out customs", I really liked something about the "Predicta" and built a couple models of it. I'm not sure why that one appealed to me so much.

DAC

[rggale]

Great looking truck. I would love a 60-61 Suburban to go with my 61 pickup. Yours is great, and I love the family heirloom story. Vehicles are great, but their stories really make them special. Unfortunately, most stories are lost to time and through the hands of many owners.

[Ed Snyder]

Great looking truck. I would love a 60-61 Suburban to go with my 61 pickup. Yours is great, and I love the family heirloom story. Vehicles are great, but their stories really make them special. Unfortunately, most stories are lost to time and through the hands of many owners.

A quick searchtempest.com check didn't turn up much:
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/6164041005.html
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/6143198645.html

Thanks for the kind words!

[rggale]

A quick searchtempest.com check didn't turn up much:
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/6164041005.html
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/6143198645.html

Thanks for the kind words!

I search, a lot. My results look a lot like yours. :(

[Ed Snyder]

Our big annual Medford Show-n-Shine and evening cruise is coming up Saturday. So I took the one ton Suburban to the car wash today to get it ready. I also filled up with gas (ethanol free) while I was out. I was amazed when the pump clicked off at EXACTLY $100.00. That only bought me 25 gallons of the good stuff ($3.999/gallon). With the two 20 gallon tanks, I still had 15 gallons in reserve. I added some STA-BIL too, since I don't put that many miles on it.

[Ed Snyder]

Yesterday was our annual Medford Show 'n Shine. I got a surprise when I opened this morning's paper. This was on the front page with a big headline:

"Record 500 cars displayed at Show ’n Shine

by Nick Morgan, Medford Mail Tribune

Posted Jun 17, 2017

Amid a bevy of Bel Airs, Corvette convertibles and marvelously restored Mustangs, Ed Snyder of Jacksonville’s patinaed GMC Suburban was a different breed of classic, though cherished the same as the pride and joy of hundreds of others.

The teal blue paint on Snyder’s rig has faded, and salt from the harsh Kansas winters where his father drove it for 49 years left a rusty tinge in places, but Snyder said he wouldn’t change a thing on the truck, which has been in his family since May 28, 1965, when his father took delivery in Wichita, Kansas. For Snyder, it’s a memory machine.

“It’s only original once,” Snyder said. “That’s the way it’s looked since 1965 — it’s just acquired some battle scars over the years.”

If every car has a story to tell, there were some 650 of them at the Medford Cruise Show ’n Shine Saturday morning at Fichtner-Mainwaring Park, including a record 500 cars from model years before 1979, according to Medford Cruise Vice President Bill Maentz."

http://www.mailtribune.com/news/20170617/record-500-cars-displayed-at-show-n-shine

[Ed Snyder]

Here are a few photos from the show yesterday. I liked that unrestored '67 International.

[GMCDAC]

HEY check out the "Like" button Jeannie added! cool!

Ed, you and Pete probably have the best trucks that represent Fathers Day on the entire 'net! I got your email too. It sure seems survivor trucks like yours and that International are getting very popular. I got no GMC's of Dad's but I have one of Mom's.

I noticed that the International has a "Miro-Flare" on the ground in front of it. Several years ago I was buying some parts from a '55 GMC at a local "Pull a Part" and a whole set of them were in the box of the truck plus one extra. I thought they were cool and bought them too. I bead blasted and painted them to be wall hangers in the shop. Well about a year later I found info that they were offered as an optional accessory from GMC in '55 and '56 and maybe more years. They had probably been with that parts truck since they were new! Now I wish I would have left them rusty to match my '55.

Thanks for the update, Cool paper article, Ed. Hope you and your Dad had a great Father's Day.

DAC

[Ed Snyder]

HEY check out the "Like" button Jeannie added! cool!

Ed, you and Pete probably have the best trucks that represent Fathers Day on the entire 'net! I got your email too. It sure seems survivor trucks like yours and that International are getting very popular. I got no GMC's of Dad's but I have one of Mom's. Thanks for the update, Cool paper article, Ed. Hope you and your Dad had a great Father's Day.

DAC

I called my 92 year old Dad to wish him a Happy Father's Day, Doug. He was eating cake and ice cream with one of my brothers and one of my sisters and their spouses. He was pretty excited to hear about his old Suburban being on the front page of today's paper here. I'll be sending him a copy of the article.

[TJ's GMC]

Hi Ed! It was good to see you at the show Saturday, I ended up getting out of there early as the heat was getting to me. haha Looks like it was a great success, how'd the cruise go?

[Ed Snyder]

Hi Ed! It was good to see you at the show Saturday, I ended up getting out of there early as the heat was getting to me. haha Looks like it was a great success, how'd the cruise go?

We watched for you among the spectators at the cruise, TJ. Now I know why we didn't see you. We did a couple of laps, then parked to watch the others cruise by. Towards the end we did a couple more laps. The Suburban always gets lots of attention.

[TJ's GMC]

We watched for you among the spectators at the cruise, TJ. Now I know why we didn't see you. We did a couple of laps, then parked to watch the others cruise by. Towards the end we did a couple more laps. The Suburban always gets lots of attention.

No doubt it does! It's a rare piece! How's things looking for showing up to the show here in CJ?

[Ed Snyder]

How's things looking for showing up to the show here in CJ?

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I plan to be there.
See you Saturday!

[Ed Snyder]

Some photos of TJ's '64 pickup and my '65 Suburban at the Cave Junction show today. TJ's friend John's Studebaker is next to TJ's truck.

[GMCDAC]

All three great trucks! Thanks for the pics!

DAC

[TJ's GMC]

Great seeing you today Ed!


Unfortunately due to high heat 105+....not many members or people showed up. Luckily the 4 of us had shade to sit under but it was still a sweaty day. haha John walked away with a Mayor's choice award and 40's stock I believe. :thumbsup:

[Ed Snyder]

Great seeing you today Ed!

John walked away with a Mayor's choice award and 40's stock I believe. :thumbsup:

John certainly deserved it -- he's got an awesome truck! I told John my Mom is from South Bend, Indiana, home to Studebakers. Her family always owned them.

[Ed Snyder]

I came across an old photo today. It was taken in about 1972. It shows me standing in front of my 1963 half ton Suburban and Dad standing in front of his 1965 one ton Suburban. A previous owner of my half ton had turned the center seat around to face the rear, and had installed a table between the center seat and the rear (third row) seat to form a dinette. That truck also had an under-dash air conditioning unit. Dad's Suburban had 12x16.5 tires on it. I put 10x16.5 tires on mine. I used a crescent wrench to turn up the inner lip of the rear wheel openings to clear the tires. They were still a tight fit.

[Ed Snyder]

I recently came across a letter Dad had written to the (now defunct) Mechanix Illustrated magazine. MI had an ongoing contest for subscribers who submitted info on projects they had completed. The prize was the "Golden Hammer Award" -- a tie clasp in the shape of a hammer, gold-plated of course. With apologies for the length, here is Dad's submission:

February 28, 1967

Mechanix Illustrated
Golden Hammer Award
67 West 44th St.
New York, N.Y. 10036

Gentlemen:

I thought you might be interested in my latest project, as shown in the attached before and after photos. It originated after I bought a 24 foot Avion travel trailer, which I took on many vacation trips, each time with some sort of minor or major car trouble, due to the extra load of pulling the additional 4,000 pounds of trailer over many Colorado mountain passes. Of course, my nine children, my wife, and myself also added to the load of the nine passenger Plymouth V-8 station wagon. After many transmission (automatic) overhauls, three engine overhauls, including a broken crankshaft (!), I decided to either give up traveling and sell the trailer, or get a more rugged and roomier station wagon for the job.

The problem then became of finding a suitable station wagon that would seat eleven people comfortably on long trips, and have enough power to pull the trailer over the mountains. This was late in 1964, after the broken crankshaft incident. After looking over the field of suitable vehicles, I soon found that the ones with the big V-8 engines had barely enough room for 7 people in comfort (in so-called 9 passenger wagons), while the small bus type wagons, although having more room, all had very small and inadequate engines, meant mainly for around-town use. The nearest thing to meeting my requirements, factory made, were the GMC and Chevrolet Suburban Carryall, with three seats. More than 8 people were too many for these truck type wagons, however.

After considerable research, I finally ordered a new 1965 GMC one-ton panel delivery truck, which is three feet longer than the ½-ton Suburban, as well as having all sorts of other heavy-duty features, such as bigger wheels and tires, a full floating rear axle, heavy springs and frame, and many other hidden extras. Unfortunately, this unit could not be ordered with side windows, and only a single driver’s seat, had two vertically hinged doors on the back in place of the tailgate style I preferred, and had a slow 4.57 ratio rear axle, which meant speeds over 60 mph were really winding up the 305 cubic inch V-6 engine. Not much of a family-type vehicle. I had my plans all complete, however, for the big modification program. After taking delivery of the vehicle in late April 1965, I proceeded to start on the following rework:

1. The 305 cubic inch engine was replaced by a heavy-duty 351 cubic inch engine. Both were V-6 style and similar in external dimensions, but the 351 included 4-ring pistons, sodium cooled exhaust valves, and other heavy duty features, as it was built for use in big highway transport trucks, rather than small pickup-type vehicles, as was the original engine.

2. An additional two-speed auxiliary transmission was installed in the center of the drive shaft. This Watson Brownie unit is installed as an overdrive unit, and nicely takes care of the high engine RPM problem while on the road. 3,000 RPM in overdrive means 75 MPH, rather than 60 MPH with the unit in the straight-through selection. This also gave me 8 speeds forward and 2 in reverse, enough to cope with any hill!

3. I carefully laid out and cut the openings for the three windows in each side, using an electric saber saw. This required removal of all the internal side braces which would have covered up part of the windows. New braces were then made to fit in-between the windows to supply the necessary rigidity to the roof. The windows had been custom-built to my specifications by the Young Window Co. in Conshohocken, Pa., and I installed them in weatherstripping I had ordered from the Inland Rubber Co.

4. The original rear doors were removed, and hinge points were installed for the Suburban-type tailgate and liftgate. This involved much time and careful measurement, and the fabrication of several parts to allow the installation of the top and bottom hinges and the supports to hold the tailgate and liftgate open, plus all the various latches, etc. Sheet metal cutting and welding was also required. I then hung and adjusted the new tailgate and liftgate, after first assembling them from all the detail parts, as I could not order them as assembled units. I then had the outside of the tailgate and liftgate painted to match the truck, giving the outside a finished appearance.

5. I had ordered Suburban-type seats for the inside, and these also were delivered unassembled, with the seat frames unpainted metal. I primed and painted these with a borrowed spray gun, and assembled each of the 5 seat units. The front seat is divided, with a two-thirds width driver’s seat, and a one-third width passenger seat, which folds forward for access to the rear seats. Behind the driver’s seat are two two-thirds width seats, with an aisle on the right side. A full-width rear seat completes the four rows of seats, each with its own sliding window, complete with sliding removable insect screens! The screens were also supplied by the Young Window Co.

6. Prior to final installation of the seats, I carpeted the entire rear floor area (everything behind the driver’s seat) with foam rubber padding and a very thick acrylan carpet that I was able to buy as a remnant. The seats were then installed and the interior also was complete.

7. The empty space between the outside sheet metal and the inside metal panels on each side below the windows was filled with pre-expanded polystyrene beads for insulation and sound suppression. These very light beads (one and one-quarter pounds per cubic foot) were poured in through 4-inch diameter holes behind each taillight, and certainly were worth the effort.

8. My Reese equalizing trailer hitch was then installed on the frame, and the trailer wiring was spliced in. The vehicle was complete!

I now have over 30,000 miles on the unit, over half of which are with my Avion in tow. It has proven to be very dependable and averages about 10.5 MPG, not bad for a 6,000 pound station wagon with a 4,000 pound trailer and 1,000 pounds of passengers! My old Plymouth wagon didn’t ever do that good! I can comfortably seat 10 full-size adults, and can squeeze in 14 if necessary. The record was 23 for one 150 mile trip. The springs are ample for this load, as they are rated at 8800 pounds gross weight. It is ideal for long trips, as the children can easily move around and change seats, and they all face forward, which they much prefer to the rear facing wagons. I also enjoy the driving now, as the trailer doesn’t cause the heavy vehicle to whip or sway, and the power steering and brakes make it as easy to drive as any car. Parking takes a little getting used to the almost 20 foot length, however. The three rear seats are easily removable with wing nuts, leaving a huge space for carrying large objects. My most recent addition was an AM-FM radio which adds much to the enjoyment of traveling.

Except for the help I had with the engine switch and the auxiliary transmission installation, plus miscellaneous small welding and the tailgate painting, all work was done by myself, with the occasional help of various members of the family when the work required two people. It never fails to draw many comments at campsites, filling stations, and around town, and I must admit that I enjoy talking about it to all who ask questions!

Yours very truly,

Robert M. Snyder
Wichita, Kansas

[Funky61]

THAT is Kool Ed! Boy your dad was quite the Innovator/Fabricator/Hot Rodder! Love the detail he gave. That 1-Ton has been through quite a transformation; Great history.

[kknotts]

Fascinating information as well as truck and family history. Thanks for sharing!

[GMCDAC]

That is so cool to read this in your Dad's own words. Do you still have the tie clip? I've said it before that this truck has to be the best family and vehicle history ever and still think so.

Hope all is well.

DAC

[Ed Snyder]

That is so cool to read this in your Dad's own words. Do you still have the tie clip? I've said it before that this truck has to be the best family and vehicle history ever and still think so.

Hope all is well.

DAC

Dad still has the tie clip according to my sister who lives near Mom and Dad in Wichita, Doug. I'm hoping he'll pass it on to me.

Thanks for the kind words!

[GMCDAC]

Dad still has the tie clip according to my sister who lives near Mom and Dad in Wichita, Doug. I'm hoping he'll pass it on to me.

Thanks for the kind words!

You're welcome Ed. I'm glad they are still doing well! I'm sure he knows it belongs with the truck. I can't blame him for hanging on to that little piece of recognition he got for submitting such a cool story.

DAC

[Ed Snyder]

You're welcome Ed. I'm glad they are still doing well! I'm sure he knows it belongs with the truck. I can't blame him for hanging on to that little piece of recognition he got for submitting such a cool story.

DAC

I got a surprise in the mail from my sister today, Doug. She was able to convince Dad to pass ownership of the Golden Hammer award on to me. Here's what she wrote:

"Dad asked me to send you his prized Golden Hammer. It shows signs of wear because he used to wear it as a tie clip to work. No doubt he told the story to many co-workers. I hope you enjoy it as much as he did."

Dad worked as a systems engineer for the military division of Boeing in Wichita for 41 years before he retired in 1989.

[GMCDAC]

I got a surprise in the mail from my sister today, Doug. She was able to convince Dad to pass ownership of the Golden Hammer award on to me. Here's what she wrote:

"Dad asked me to send you his prized Golden Hammer. It shows signs of wear because he used to wear it as a tie clip to work. No doubt he told the story to many co-workers. I hope you enjoy it as much as he did."

Dad worked as a systems engineer for the military division of Boeing in Wichita for 41 years before he retired in 1989.

Something like that should have been worn proudly I'd say! The wear just adds to the history of the truck's story.

If I would have been awarded that little prize, I may have taken up wearing a tie!

Good for you to get another piece of the history!

DAC

[tbucketnut]

Thanks for posting up the thread Ed, I would of never found it. Great read, huge people mover for sure.
It looks like in one of your pictures, I spied a pair of ballast resistors, you running them in parallel for better ignition??
Steve

[Ed Snyder]

Thanks for posting up the thread Ed, I would of never found it. Great read, huge people mover for sure.
It looks like in one of your pictures, I spied a pair of ballast resistors, you running them in parallel for better ignition??
Steve

Sorry I missed this when you first posted it, Steve. Dad actually installed a second ignition coil too. One is conventional, the other for a transistorized system. He liked to have redundancy.

By the way, Dad passed away October 24th at age 95. He would have been 96 on Pearl Harbor Day. You can see his photo with Mom near the top of page 2 of this thread.

[Funky61]

Ed,
My condolences, prayers and thoughts to you and family for his passing. May your Father rest in peace. Henry

[BobBray]

Sorry to hear Ed. My prayers and condolences to you and your family as well.

[Clarke]

Sorry to hear about your dad Ed...

I enjoyed the visit I had with him several years ago. I remember him commenting about the familiar shifting/clicking sounds of the transmission when I took you guys for a ride in my ‘62.

[LEWISMATKIN]

Ed, I just finished this thread and learned that your dad passed away on my Mom's birthday, October 24. My prayers and condolences to you and the rest of your family. May the peace of God, which passes all understanding, fill the hearts and minds of you and each of your family members.

your friend in Christ,

Lewis Ellis Matkin, Jr.
Ridge Manor, Fla.
1965 1002 305E (soon to be 401M)

[Ed Snyder]

Ed, I just finished this thread and learned that your dad passed away on my Mom's birthday, October 24. My prayers and condolences to you and the rest of your family. May the peace of God, which passes all understanding, fill the hearts and minds of you and each of your family members.

your friend in Christ,

Lewis Ellis Matkin, Jr.
Ridge Manor, Fla.
1965 1002 305E (soon to be 401M)

Don't know how I missed this when you first posted it, Lewis, but I wanted to thank you for your kind words. Coincidentally, just since my Dad died in October, my mother-in-law died in November and my Dad's sister died in January. All three were in their 90s. For anyone interested, Google "Margaret Snyder" to learn about the founder of UNIFEM. She owned an apartment across the street from her long-time employer, the United Nations. Aunt Margaret took my wife and me on a tour of the UN building in 2000 where we got to see Nelson Mandela speaking to the Security Council.

[Funky61]

Ed I did look her up and "Peg" had quite the life!
Talk about living your life to the fullest as an author, educator, scholar, traveler/explorer and being a pioneer in Women's economic equality; She was way ahead of the curve.

[Ed Snyder]

Ed I did look her up and "Peg" had quite the life!
Talk about living your life to the fullest as an author, educator, scholar, traveler/explorer and being a pioneer in Women's economic equality; She was way ahead of the curve.

Thanks, Henry. Aunt Peg's resume really puts mine to shame. She certainly fit a lot of accomplishments into her life. Up until a couple of months ago she still walked everywhere in NYC. She had just moved into an assisted living facility back "home" in East Syracuse to be near her brother and other family members when her health took a nosedive. She passed away less than a week short of her 92nd birthday.

Seeing the Henry J photo on your post reminded me of a friend from my freshman year in college. He had a Henry J that he was working on to turn it into a drag strip special.

[Ed Snyder]

Some of you may be familiar with the Bring a Trailer website. Beware though -- it can suck you end and you can spend way too many hours on it! The youngest of my eight siblings, known as Auto Traitor on BaT, scored today by being selected for "Comment of the Day". See https://bringatrailer.com/todayonbat/2022-02-19/ You'll have to scroll way down past all the photos of vehicles for sale first, then click on "No Reserve: 1959 Plymouth Sport Suburban Project" to read Pete's whole comment. Since Pete was born in 1965, he can be excused for mis-remembering the Plymouth as a '59 when it was actually a '57.

[Funky61]

Very cool Ed!
That was a monster of a wagon with those big rear fins out back.

[Ed Snyder]

Very cool Ed!
That was a monster of a wagon with those big rear fins out back.

Thanks, Funky! Here are a couple of photos of what the '57 Plymouth Suburban looked like. Ours was the gold color.

[Ed Snyder]

The Sun tachometer in Dad's old one ton Suburban stopped working many years ago. I finally got motivated enough to troubleshoot it, and learned why Dad never bothered with it. First I had to lie under the front end to scrape undercoating off the bolt heads holding the grille on. After removing the grille, I had to remove the "wings" on either side of the core support too. The Sun tach was a dealer-installed option, so I don't know why they decided to hide the sending unit behind the grille.

After removing the sending unit and opening it up, I saw just what I was expecting -- lots of corrosion at both ends of the original mercury battery. After scraping off as much as I could, I installed a new AA battery as was suggested in an old post to the forum. However, after reinstalling the sending unit and starting the engine, I found that the tach still doesn't work.

So now I'm asking for suggestions on what to try next. I know replacing the Sun tach with a new one from Datcon or Isspro would be the easiest fix, but I'd like to preserve the original installation if possible. I seem to remember posts to the forum about converting the Sun tach to eliminate the remote sending unit, but haven't tried finding that yet.

See attached photos.

[Funky61]

Hi Ed; I found this article about a work around solution.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1166337

Has battery number alternatives I was not able to find on the net.


And of course eBay Transmitter unit

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285468398404?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=wYxDfR2YRkG&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=OmvDC9F3RlS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Clarke]

Hello Ed,

In ref to the tach transmitter unit:

I’m not sure I have any value added feedback, but I thought I’d share a photo of the guts on my unit, in case there’s something you can compare.
Note: Because I was disappointed in how long the single battery configuration last on the tach, I soldered jumper wires over to the other side of the box, so I could install a second battery. I’m much happier with the life now.

In ref to my soldering job, I know, there are big blobs. But hey, I’m the kinda guy who uses a pound of nails for a pound of wood. ;)

FYI, I believe I did a write up on my installation of the tach system years ago but I couldn’t find it. I’m not very good at searching through the archive threads. Anyway, I got lucky and found period correct components at a swap meet. However, maybe it’s the engineer in me, I like things symmetrical, so I mounted the tach transmitter unit on the driver side inner fender under the hood (opposite side to the battery regulator). Looks like it belongs there and well protected from road grime.

Best of luck!

[tbucketnut]

Ed, If you are looking for a guy to go through that tach and control box, get a hold of Jerry Valentine up here in the pacific Northwest, believe he is in Kirkland WA. He went through my GMC tach and converted it over to electronic. No more batteries and you can still retain your box for original looks or have the electronics put into the transmitter box. Also it has dipper switches so you can run it with V8 or V6. Ran me a couple hundred.
Contact Jerry at Catclock@msn.com

[Ed Snyder]

Hello Ed,

In ref to the tach transmitter unit:

I’m not sure I have any value added feedback, but I thought I’d share a photo of the guts on my unit, in case there’s something you can compare.
Note: Because I was disappointed in how long the single battery configuration last on the tach, I soldered jumper wires over to the other side of the box, so I could install a second battery. I’m much happier with the life now.

In ref to my soldering job, I know, there are big blobs. But hey, I’m the kinda guy who uses a pound of nails for a pound of wood. ;)

FYI, I believe I did a write up on my installation of the tach system years ago but I couldn’t find it. I’m not very good at searching through the archive threads. Anyway, I got lucky and found period correct components at a swap meet. However, maybe it’s the engineer in me, I like things symmetrical, so I mounted the tach transmitter unit on the driver side inner fender under the hood (opposite side to the battery regulator). Looks like it belongs there and well protected from road grime.

Best of luck!

Looks good with that second battery in there, Dave! I might give that a try. I might relocate the box too, for easier access.

[Ed Snyder]

Ed, If you are looking for a guy to go through that tach and control box, get a hold of Jerry Valentine up here in the pacific Northwest, believe he is in Kirkland WA. He went through my GMC tach and converted it over to electronic. No more batteries and you can still retain your box for original looks or have the electronics put into the transmitter box. Also it has dipper switches so you can run it with V8 or V6. Ran me a couple hundred.
Contact Jerry at Catclock@msn.com

Thanks for the tip, Steve! I'll try sending Jerry an email to see what he can do for me.

Ed

[BobBray]

Ed, if you don't have any luck with Jerry Valentine (sounds like he is closer to you), I use these guys. Talk to Shannon:

https://redlinegaugeworks.com/

[Ed Snyder]

Thanks for the tip, Steve! I'll try sending Jerry an email to see what he can do for me.

Ed

Just got a reply from Jerry Valentine. He's having eye trouble, so he can't help me. I'll check out the company Bob Bray recommended instead.

[Ed Snyder]

When Dad bought this one ton panel truck in 1965 which he converted into a Suburban with four rows of seats, he spent a lot of time at the dealership in Wichita, Sauder-Lygrisse. I usually went with him for visits because I liked looking at all the trucks, and listening to the conversations between Dad, Norm Sauder, and Gene Lygrisse. I could tell Norm and Gene were fond of Dad and his plans for the Suburban conversion.

One of the things I found interesting at the dealership was a board on the wall below the parts counter. It was a sheet of plywood painted white with a black line painted down the middle. On the left side were V6 engine parts (piston, con rod, etc.) wired to the board, and on the right side were corresponding small block V8 engine parts for comparison. It was obvious how much bigger and heavier all the V6 parts were.

Occasionally someone would come into the shop there and insist on replacing their V6 with a V8, thinking that two more cylinders had to be better. Dad and I always got a laugh out of that.

So, my question is, does someone out there with time on their hands want to recreate that old sheet of plywood with V6 and V8 parts? Might convince the occasional member here who wants to do the V6 to V8 conversion to stick with the V6 instead.

[Ed Snyder]

After giving it a lot of thought over the last few months, I've decided to pass the one ton Suburban on to the next owner. See it on BaT here --- https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-gmc-suburban/
Feel free to bid on it!

:biggringmc:

[FetchMeAPepsi]

:ahhhh:

[Funky61]

A Great Story...History and listing Ed! :thumbsup:


I'm sure it was not an easy decision to sell. Best wishes on the sale and I do like your listing name. :goodluck::toofunny:

[Ed Snyder]

The one ton Suburban drove off into the sunset this afternoon. The new owners are Bob and Tammy Pitcher of Billings, Montana. Bob and his son are driving it back to Billings.

[Funky61]

Congratulations Ed!

I watched and it was a great auction till the very end.

That's a nice photo of the new owners and looks to be going to a good home.

[FetchMeAPepsi]

This makes me sad. I know it's going to a great new home but dang. The history!
I guess you can't drive three trucks though.