1960 Pick up VIN location

[AngryPirate]

I know there have been some posts about this, but I was wondering if anyone had some new insight...

The kick panel plate, as far as I know is not the VIN plate, but the ratings plate.

Here's my story:

So, I tried to get a title for my truck and part of that process is taking the vehicle to the sheriff office vehicle theft unit and they give you a forum so you can complete the process.

They weren't accepting the door frame plate with the serial number and wanted the vin from the chassis, which they believe to be on the drivers side on the top of the frame rail, just in front of the rear cab mount. So, since I might be replacing the cab anyways, I cut open the floor to expose that part of the frame and there was nothing there.

There was nothing that I could see on the front part of the frame (horns? area).

From what I've read, Chevys may have had these stampings on the frame, but the GMC's didn't, especially my year of truck, 1960.

Any thoughts on this?

[AZKen]

What is your VIN number/Serial Number on your "door frame"?...and what do you mean by door frame exactly? You also mention a kick panel plate. There is no frame/chassis stamp. Do you have two plates? If so, where exactly are they?

[AngryPirate]

Serial# on the drivers side cab door frame reads: 1001 P N35631A

I know that 1001 means its a 1/2 ton with a SWB, I know the 'P' means Pontiac, Michigan manufactured, and I know that the 'N' is the year designation, sort of....60 and 61 and the rest is the number of manufacture and the 'A' means its GVW is 6000 lbs or less.

But I believe the sheriff is expecting to find a different number stamped somewhere on the chassis, which from what I've read, doesn't exist on GMC's of my year. Chevrolet's, I believe there are stampings.

I just want to know if there are any other areas on the frame I could investigate.

The serial # unfortunately doesn't specify the color code or anything else outside of things listed above.

It just sucks because I think the sheriff believes that there should be a VIN outside of the serial #, which might not be the case.

Like I mentioned earlier, I opened up the floor on the cab over the driver side rear cab mount and cleaned the dirty and rust off and no sign of a stamping at all. :-/

Here is the door frame plate I am referring to...

http://6066gmcguy.com/gmc-id/1963-vintag-1.jpg

[AZKen]

Since I did ask you how many plates you have and exactly where they were and you show a Chevy A pillar with a stainless steel plate, I assume you have that one plate at that location. If so, something is wrong with your truck. There is only one plate on 1960 GMC 1/2 T and it is not located as in the picture. It is an all-in-one plate with VIN and Motor info. There is NO frame stamping on USA 1960 GMC 1/2T. There is something very fishy about your truck, The person who did the VIN switch did not know that GMC tag is not located there. He just assumed it was the same as Chevy. Looks like a Chevy cab with a phony GMC VIN. GMC Clone. Unless you clarify this VIN tag and location more clearly to me. Maybe someone else has seen a tag there on 60-61. However, the GMC manual clearly states where the tag is and what it looks like. I see you are wanting a tag in another post. That tag is wrong for your truck. Not just the wrong motor designation but the wrong tag altogether.

Not sure what this sentence means regarding "outside of the"
It just sucks because I think the sheriff believes that there should be a VIN outside of the serial #,

Also to be clear about terms. I am guilty also......The term VIN was NOT used yet by GMC. It is, in fact, a serial number. Not a VIN... but we all use both terms...but you used them both in one sentence, so I wanted to be sure what you meant?

[AngryPirate]

Since I did ask you how many plates you have and exactly where they were and you show a Chevy A pillar with a stainless steel plate, I assume you have that plate at that location. If so, something is wrong with your truck. There is only one plate on 1960 GMC 1/2 T and it is not located as in the picture. It is an all-in-one plate with VIN and Motor info. There is NO frame stamping on USA 1960 GMC 1/2T. There is something very fishy about your truck, The person who did the VIN switch did not know that GMC tag is not located there. He just assumed it was the same as Chevy. Looks like a Chevy cab with a phony GMC VIN. GMC Clone. Unless you clarify this VIN tag and location more clearly to me. Maybe someone else has seen a tag there on 60-61. However, the GMC manual clearly states where the tag is and what it looks like. I see you are wanting a tag in another post. That tag is wrong for your truck. Not just the wrong motor designation but the wrong tag altogether.

But that photo I provided was a link to this sites information about VINs on GMC's. Is that wrong? Perhaps the site admin should be made aware.

This is the page I got that photo from. As far as I can tell, the kick panel plate is just for the vehicle rating.
http://6066gmcguy.com/GMCID1.html

The ratings plate that should be on the kick panel is missing.

kick panel plate here:

http://6066gmcguy.com/gmc-id/ratingplate_1.jpg

from this information page as well.:
http://6066gmcguy.com/GMCID1.html

[AngryPirate]

good to know that there is absolutely no frame stamping, since I don't have one.

It's just going to take some effort to convince the sheriff.

Thanks Ken.

[AZKen]

I have told you everything you need to know. You are obviously hiding something about your truck or you can't understand my questions. We are not going to participate or give info to someone who has no title, no answers and does not respond to questions. Your truck is fishy, as I said. Don't show me pictures of a VIN plate off of a website to blow smoke on the issue. When you are ready, which I doubt, to respond to what you have and what you are up to, let me know.
We will correct any errors on the Jolly Legacy Page. That info is for locating a plate when buying a truck, it's not for building an abandon, stolen, salvage or clone truck.

[AngryPirate]

I have told you everything you need to know. You are obviously hiding something about your truck or you can't understand my questions. We are not going to participate or give info to someone who has no title, no answers and does not respond to questions. Your truck is fishy, as I said. Don't show me pictures of a VIN plate off of a website to blow smoke on the issue. When you are ready, which I doubt, to respond to what you have and what you are up to, let me know.

Nothing to hide Ken. I've told you everything I know and I have provided THIS SITES (6066gmcguy.org is the parent to the forums) facts about where VINs should be, so I think there might be something the matter with your GMCs since mine seems to match what THIS site says is correct.

Blowing smoke? Are you high? You do realize those pictures are from THIS WEBSITE. Look at the URL.

I'm starting to think you're this sites troll. This is the second time you've been rude and condescending and act like you know it all. Please do not respond to anything I post. You are not helpful.

Go to this site, it might make it more clear to you... http://www.6066gmcguy.org/

[AZKen]

Not sure what this sentence means regarding "outside of the"

"it just sucks because i think the sheriff believes that there should be a vin outside of the serial #, "

also to be clear about terms. I am guilty also......the term vin was not used yet by gmc. It is, in fact, a serial number. Not a vin... But we all use both terms...but you used them both in one sentence, so i wanted to be sure what you meant?
MY truck, the trucks on the internet and the 1960 Manual says that the Page you keep using could be a little off. We will investigate and correct.

[AngryPirate]

The legacy site shows where things should be (which includes being useful when buying a truck).

The other users on another vintage truck site also state the location of my serial # plate matches theirs.

My tag/plate with my serial, or what the DMV is going to refer to as a "VIN" is where it's supposed to be. The ratings plate is missing. But there are holes where the rivets used to be.

So that said, it's most likely my truck is simply without a title and has been lost over the years. So, it being a clone seems unlikely. It's not some mysterious, conspiracy GMC frame, cab swap.

It has all the correct parts....the correct motor, carburetor, all parts ordered from NAPA (with the exception of the distributor) are a perfect match.

It has the original under cab fuel filter, etc., etc.

I look forward to someone "correcting" the old information site. It seems to have been correct about everything else so far.

All I was looking for, if there was a possibility of a stamping somewhere on the chassis. You seem to think there shouldn't be, as do many others. So the contribution I needed from you has been fulfilled.

Yeah, my serial plate for my truck is exactly where 1000 series truck is supposed to be...
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=3000006

Another well known site validating mine is in the correct place. Let's see this manual you keep telling us about. Snap a picture for a brother, would ya?

Thanks again Ken for your rude and condescending response.

Always a pleasure. Please stop responding to any of my posts.

[AZKen]

I didn't say the motor, carburetor and filter were incorrect, I said the cab may be. Those items are NOT connected to the cab.
That's the trouble with WIKI sites, they keep repeating the same thing. Get yourself a GMC x-6023 manual. Read it. It says what I said it says. They are all over Ebay. Save up and buy one. Your truck VIN plate is wrong. Need to learn to search better. Don't keep looking at the same picture on different sites and thinking that is proof. That's not intelligent. You make it hard to get thru to you and it sounds condescending because you don't like that you are wrong and are using wrong info and not my info. I've said several times that we will correct it. Can't do it tonight. Good luck with your Title mess. Can't help people who won't listen. I know you are doing something fishy and you know it, bro.

[AngryPirate]

I didn't say the motor, carburetor and filter were incorrect, I said the cab may be. Those items are NOT connected to the cab. BTW I was editing my post when you posted.
Can you direct us to the website that says your VIN location is correct? Would love to learn from them so we can leave ours or correct.
Post a picture from this manual speak of please.

Reference added to my previous post. It references the 6066gmcguy site as a source, but posters in that thread confirm what the 6066gmcguy information states.

Another clone found! See this build thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=444502

Look at this picture, found in thread posting #7

[AngryPirate]

Need to learn to search better. Don't keep looking at the same picture on different sites and thinking that is proof. That's not intelligent.

Classic, rude and condescending Ken.

[AngryPirate]

Get yourself a GMC x-6023 manual

I don't need to, you have one. I just need you to snap a picture of yours that tells the exact placement of a 1000 series 1960 GMC truck.

You want to be helpful, do that.

[AZKen]

OK, this may count in your mind as rude and condescending but, respectfully: Your own link proves what I said, You just didn't look.

If I post a picture of the manual for you it does two things.
1. Helps you plan your scam on the DMV
2. Allows you to call me a liar
3. Maybe someone else will help you

You are going to have to learn this deal the hard way. You say: don't respond to your posts.
You make condescending remarks about "must also be a clone". You ask for a picture from my manual.
I think I'll not respond now and watch you get schooled. You ask and you got the answer you didn't want. So you call it condescending, Makes you feel good.

[AngryPirate]

OK, this may count in your mind as rude and condescending but, respectfully: Your own link proves what I said, You just didn't look.

If I post a picture of the manual for you it does two things.
1. Helps you plan your scam on the DMV
2. Allows you to call me a liar
3. Maybe someone else will help you

You are going to have to learn this deal the hard way. You say: don't respond to your posts.
You make condescending remarks about "must also be a clone". You ask for a picture from my manual.
I think I'll not respond now and watch you get schooled. You ask and you got the answer you didn't want. So you call it condescending, Makes you feel good.

And there you have folks, a list of odd and weak excuses so Ken doesn't have to admit he's wrong.
Thanks again, for nothing Ken.

Please don't respond. Good riddance.

[AZKen]

Tell you what Bro, you post your genuine original Factory GMC riveted "A" pillar plate and I'll post the Manual page. Now will see who's weak buddy.

[AngryPirate]

Tell you what Bro, you post your genuine original Factory GMC riveted "A" pillar plate and I'll post the Manual page. Now will see who's weak buddy.

I thought you were done and were going to let me fade away?

Here ya go buddy...a picture of the document I was going to send in my DMV packet. Also, I already took the whole truck on a trailer to the sheriffs office.
Hey! Look at the picture I attached, it's the same serial # I posted earlier.

Also, we know who's weak Ken. It's you.

Are you done yet? You going to let me fade away?

You can post the manual pages if you want, but I'm getting another member, who has that manual to find those pages, if they exist and send them to me.

I'll post them here once I get them. If you're right, I'll still post them, because that's what adults do.

Also, please let me fade away. No really, please let me.

[AngryPirate]

Here's a picture of the old registration sticker from when it was last registered in Texas....

The lengths I must be going to, to mastermind this plan of mine huh?

[snazzypig]

Don't know if I should step in here, but just wanted to share my knowledge and research on the subject. I have a 1960 and 1961 GMC, both 1000 series. Both have factory drilled holes on the left door (A) pillar, apparently for a serial number (VIN) plate, but no plate was ever riveted there. Both factory paint. Instead, the serial number is stamped on the ratings plate on the left kick panel area. Both vehicles were inspected here in Colorado after being brought here from out of state and were titled from that serial number location. Yes I have heard that Texas is particularly strict on title issues.

I have also taken the time to look at the picture albums on this site and elsewhere, and have seen multiple 60 and 61's with the same thing: 2 holes on the door pillar with the same spacing and size, and no plate there. I assume those trucks also have their serial numbers on the data plate. I also have heard that GMC's from this era do not have frame stamped serial numbers.
I hope this helps.

[AngryPirate]

Don't know if I should step in here, but just wanted to share my knowledge and research on the subject. I have a 1960 and 1961 GMC, both 1000 series. Both have factory drilled holes on the left door (A) pillar, apparently for a serial number (VIN) plate, but no plate was ever riveted there. Both factory paint. Instead, the serial number is stamped on the ratings plate on the left kick panel area. Both vehicles were inspected here in Colorado after being brought here from out of state and were titled from that serial number location. Yes I have heard that Texas is particularly strict on title issues.

I have also taken the time to look at the picture albums on this site and elsewhere, and have seen multiple 60 and 61's with the same thing: 2 holes on the door pillar with the same spacing and size, and no plate there. I assume those trucks also have their serial numbers on the data plate. I also have heard that GMC's from this era do not have frame stamped serial numbers.
I hope this helps.

Finally! Someone with some useful information.

Thank you for that.

Now, what I wonder is, since the holes are there, perhaps trucks manufactured in different plants have serial #'s in different locations? Perhaps trucks destined for different states had difference tagging requirements? The latter may not be real since it seems regulations were a lot lighter back then. Just ideas.

Mine was manufactured in Pontiac, Michigan , I wonder if that's the difference.

Thanks again, SnazzyP.

[Jmclendon]

Now, what I wonder is, since the holes are there, perhaps trucks manufactured in different plants have serial #'s in different locations? Perhaps trucks destined for different states had difference tagging requirements? The latter may not be real since it seems regulations were a lot lighter back then. Just ideas.

Mine was manufactured in Pontiac, Michigan , I wonder if that's the difference.



I'm not sure if this helps, but I've got a 1961 1500 series and the VIN plate is on the door frame.

On a side note, it's a bit rubbish that the Sheriff's office is being such a pain.

If I can register an imported GMC and get it registered in the nanny state that is QLD, then I can't see why you're having the issues that you're running into.

[AngryPirate]

I should also add, this is quite obviously a GMC cab. The dash looks nothing like the Chevrolet cabs, the engine matches my year(305A) as do many other components, so there is no doubt this is the correct tag for this vehicle.

Do the math:

1. it has a legitimate GMC serial # that matches my vehicle

2. The engine ID matches the year on the serial # tag

3. There are pictures of GMC ratings plates WITHOUT serial #'s on them

4. There are pictures of other GMC 1000 series trucks with the tags on the A pillar

5. This truck was pretty much untouched and not hacked on at all.

6. The paint matches on all the panels. If you dig down through the green top coat, you get down to the original yellow, on all panels. Chevy and GMC did not share the same color pallets

7. Since these trucks were made in several locations, the process may have been different for tagging

8. If said manual states the plates are in a certain location, does that mean that the manual is correct, but fails to mention or know that other locations or possibilities exist? It seems that the manual is not incorrect, but rather incomplete.

9. Since people have been posting that their GMCs have the factory holes for the plate, in the area that mine is in, but no plate and that since I'm missing my ratings plate, but the holes exist for it, and my a pillar plate has all of the ratings information on it, with the GMC moniker, it seems the logical conclusion is that not all plants followed the same tagging procedure.

It seems that my truck may be an anomaly or not encountered or posted about until now and on the information site for this very forum. But everything about my truck lines up, except for the location, which again, could be correct, since it's an original badge, with GMC written on it and has the correct information that lines up with my truck.

[AngryPirate]

I'm not sure if this helps, but I've got a 1961 1500 series and the VIN plate is on the door frame.

On a side note, it's a bit rubbish that the Sheriff's office is being such a pain.

If I can register an imported GMC and get it registered in the nanny state that is QLD, then I can't see why you're having the issues that you're running into.

Thanks for the response.

Well, it's Texas and it's a smaller sheriff's office. My truck is at our shop property, out of town and it was just easier to haul the truck to this sheriff rather than negotiate the downtown streets of Austin with a 16 ft. trailer in tow ;-)

By chance, do you know what plant your truck came out of?

The 'P' in my serial is for Pontiac, MI.

I appreciate your addition to the discussion. Perhaps we'll figure out what the differences are and perhaps add it back to the original information site.

[AZKen]

Bad info redacted.

[AngryPirate]

FYI - for 1000 series trucks, 'N' was the designation for 60 and 61 model years only.

[Jmclendon]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161125/330f40682369ab6f4624a0fa98146f78.jpg

Hopefully this helps?

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[Jmclendon]

The full vin is 1502CN3796B

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[Jmclendon]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161125/91a79827353d62b594c1192c29e718ce.jpg

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[AngryPirate]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161125/91a79827353d62b594c1192c29e718ce.jpg

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Very helpful. Thanks.

Well, I guess being manufactured in Pontiac, MI isn't the common denominator.

Being in Queensland, I'm guessing everything GM are Holdens?

Have some square bear for me ;-)

[Jmclendon]

Very helpful. Thanks.

Well, I guess being manufactured in Pontiac, MI isn't the common denominator.

Being in Queensland, I'm guessing everything GM are Holdens?

Have some square bear for me ;-)
Lol I wish it was as easy as swapping Holden for gm parts...

Having said that, the old Holden suburbans look pretty much identical.... I wonder....

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[David R Leifheit]

FYI - for 1000 series trucks, 'N' was the designation for 60 and 61 model years only.

Don't listen to AZKen on this. He is wrong.

I have had a couple 60-61 GMCs, the VIN tag was on the pillar. Sometimes they have the data plate on the kick panel as well, sometimes they don't.
If it wasn't 11:06 at night and raining heavy, I'd go photograph mine.

Apparently some had it on the pillar, others on the data plate. Some had no VIN on the data plate. I'm not sure there was any true uniformity to how or where the VIN was placed.

No GMC of the 60-66 variety that I have scrapped has had the VIN stamped on the frame. Chevy did, but not all trucks of that era either. I have scrapped 2 Chevrolets from 60-63 and neither had such a stamp on the frame.

Don't have to wait for tomorrow. I had a picture of my first truck, a '61.
http://oeltd.net/doc/My%20Vehicles/6066GMC/1961-1500Grey-04.jpg

And you are correct, the "N" is only for "60 and '61 model years. The information on the "old" pages is very accurate, I'd go by what it says. A lot of time and effort was put into those pages.

AZKen might also want to read his manual. Not just look at the pictures.
and I quote:
The chassis serial number is stamped on an identification plate, shown at left. Plate is mounted on cowl left side panel inside the cab or on left door hinge pillar.

Obviously the larger data plate won't fit on the pillar, so the one you show (which matches mine) was used.

[AZKen]

David's right. AP's right. Two styles, only one shown in manual.

[Funky61]

Photo from manual of that section. I have checked in my 61 and can not find a VIN stamp or partial serial number anywhere. I even used a mirror to check on top of the frame, under the cab and found nothing there. It is my understanding that GMC's do not have one on the frame. Hopefully showing this to the agency checking the ID will help resolve the issue.

[AngryPirate]

Thanks a bunch David. I'll have to articulate this to the sheriff and perhaps get in contact with whomever runs the information site to see if we can get some clarification about there absolutely not being any frame stampings and that there was a lack of uniformity in those years.

From what I could tell, the sheriff was scouring the web for information on my type of truck.

[AngryPirate]

Funky 61, that photo is perfect! I'll print to show sheriff next time. I may just try to find a copy of that manual to just but also to show the sheriff.

Thanks for the response.

[AngryPirate]

David's right. AP's right. Two styles, only one shown in manual.

Thanks for the response Ken.

[bobdylan]

Sounds like your truck is just right,

[bobdylan]

Sheriff is wrong, sounds like your truck is right, I have bought several vehicles with out titles In Kansas, The Kansas Troopers do the inspection, they have books that show Vin,. locations for all vehicles. You might check with your State troopers, and get some proof to show Chevy and Gmc are not the same. Chevy has stamped frame rail.

[AngryPirate]

Sheriff is wrong, sounds like your truck is right, I have bought several vehicles with out titles In Kansas, The Kansas Troopers do the inspection, they have books that show Vin,. locations for all vehicles. You might check with your State troopers, and get some proof to show Chevy and Gmc are not the same. Chevy has stamped frame rail.

Thanks bobdylan. That's a good idea about the troopers. The state trooper headquarters is in Austin, near where I live, so it's worth a shot.

[GMCNUT]

Unless a member currently owns a 1961 up year model truck they can positively prove as having a VIN plate on the kick panel and not on the door frame, I believe it to be correct to say all 1960 year model trucks have the VIN stamped on the wide aluminum kick panel tag and all 1961 up trucks have a separate VIN in the door frame or as you showed in your pics - on the forward door pillar. So an "N" series truck with a forward mounted VIN plate and higher production # is likely a 61 (regardless of what the title says) and a "N" series truck with lower production number and kick panel mounted VIN would be indicative of a 1960 year model. Anyone experienced enough with 60-61 GMCs willing to concur?

[David R Leifheit]

One thing I have found out about these trucks over the years. Just as soon as you are certain that things were made a specific way a specific year... you will find at least one exception. Original exception...

This appears especially true when the vehicles share a year code. Take a look at the VINs reported by members in the past, is there a rhyme or reason to the numbering?

http://6066gmcguy.com/GMC-vin-list-60.html
http://6066gmcguy.com/GMC-vin-list-61.html

There doesn't even seem to be a correlation between the engine number and the year, let alone between the serial number and the year.

And this is just for 1960-61.
With some similarity compare 64-66 which used both a single year code and separate year codes, depending on plant(?)

[GMCNUT]

So in 1958 GMC decided to make all 58 and 59 year model trucks a single "S" series; all 58's have a shorter production number and all 59's have a longer one because 59 VIN's started in the middle of the run. Same with 60-61 N series trucks - one of the 1960's was #1 off the line and one of the 1961's was 100,000 + or wherever they ended the run. So yes - there is a definite correlation between 60-61's production # wise.

You guys have my curiosity up now and I'm going to have to ride 18 miles out to my farm and see if that alledged "1960" GMC spare parts truck has a VIN tag on the kick panel or door jamb....I'll take pics when I get there

[AZKen]

The manual I have, and was quoted by David, says Kick Panel or pillar. It is a X-6023 printed in 1961 I believe. You could deduce if they said that, they were going to put them either/or. It says it replaces a X-6003. Wonder what it says? If X-6003 is the first manual for 1960, and it says either/or, and I have an original 1960 with holes in the pillar, it may mean they were giving themselves options for different factories/tag suppliers or cabs were punched with those holes for 1960 Chevy. It seems that on the WIKIweb, all Chevy's had pillar. Depends on what X-6003 say somewhat. Interesting, at any rate. I think 55-59 GMC was a wide tag and the hinge pillar was wide so they mounted them there. I think I've learned what David said, there always seems to be an original exception. Quality control, specific procedures were a little lax back then. Maybe X-6003 says kick panel only. It has a print date of 1959.
Don't know if poster serial is high or not, our data says 95,000 V6's in 1960. Also Jmclendon shows chart with 15 as 1/2T is that not 3/4T? His "B" rating is 6000-10,000. Decoder hiccup?

[David R Leifheit]

The manual I have, and was quoted by David, says Kick Panel or pillar. It is a X-6023 printed in 1961 I believe. You could deduce if they said that, they were going to put them either/or. It says it replaces a X-6003. Wonder what it says?

Good luck finding a X-6003. I have been looking and haven't found one yet. I do have a X-6004B which is Preliminary Instructions Models 5500-9000. Inside it is copyrighted 1960 (6M 11-60)

My X-6023 is Copyright 1960. (12M X-6023 6-60) and Reprints (5M 5-61) (1M 11-63) (5C 6-65) (1m 3-72) so I would assume mine is from the 3-72 Reprint. Even though it's condition suggests it has been abused for much longer.

For reference my X-6034 Models 5500-9000 replaces X-6004A, X-6004B, and X-6031 and is copyright 1961 (85C X-6034 2-61) and reprint (5M 9-61) and is almost pristine.

Just for confusions sake, I have the X-5918 Diesel Engine Maintenance Manual Model 6V-71. It should be for the 1959 models with that manual number, but the copyright date is 1960 (12M-Mar. 1960) which suggests I have an original printing from March 1960 for the 1959 6V-71. Manual came out after the beginning of the '59 model year (and probably the end of that model year as well)

NOW, the X-6034 manual states, regarding the Chassis Serial Number, "The chassis serial number is stamped on an identification plate, shown above. Plate is mounted on the cab left door hinge pillar or on inside of left door."

The plate pictured is identical to the plate in the picture of my 1961 1500.

Maybe the holes weren't for the Chevy models, but for the bigger truck models? The W5500 model for 1960 looks like the same cab but with much larger fender flares. Kind of like the 1963 4000 I have.

To further muddy the waters, the X-6223 manual I have indicates the plate for the cowl left side panel (pictured) is for the "L" & "S" models and the pillar plate (also pictured) is for all except the "L" & "S" models according to the captions under the pictures. The volume I have is copyright 1962 (12M X-6223 2-62). It covers, and I quote, "MODELS 1000 THRU 5000 "J" SERIES AND "N" SERIES BUILT AFTER AUGUST 14, 1961"
So it appears we could have "N" series trucks as 1962 trucks as well.

The pictures show the "L" & "S" model as the large plate, the other as the same plate as in the picture of my 1961 1500.

[AZKen]

My X-6023 says "Printed in U.S.A. 12M X-6023 6-60 Reprint 5M 5-61.

Regarding X-6003: I don't know how many reprints there are but I have seen one that says: ©1959 General Motors Corporation, GMC Truck and Coach Division, 10M X-6003 9-59. Would be interesting to read the Serial plate info.
As our own data says (Jolly), it is almost impossible to know a 1960 from a 1961 without documentation. The "N" series is the most difficult. A title would not even be proof positive but close enough for Government work.

[AngryPirate]

Well, I will say I'm glad this thread has opened up some quality discussions around this.

I'm a sponge over here, soaking up all of this good information and discussion.

[AngryPirate]

I just grabbed one of these on ebay. Not sure if original or reprint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182346385693?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[bobdylan]

Great price.

[AZKen]

The X-6003 manual I referenced says the same thing as X-6023.

[GMCNUT]

So to speak to the purpose of the two VIN tag holes in a 1000 series GMC trucks' door frame; they are stamped out as part of the manufacturing process for that piece of sheetmetal which was indeed used on constructing Chevrolet cabs, and larger series GMC's where a different type of VIN plate may have been used. I checked my 1960 parts truck and it came with the kick panel tag and I also called a friend who is a local expert on early "knee knocker" trucks and he's never seen a 1960 GMC with a door post VIN plate. So, unless someone can provide proof of a US made (Mexican or Canadian assembly plant produced trucks very well might have had a door pillar mounted tag) 1960 1000 series pickup coming with a door pillar mounted tag I think its safe to say that all 1960 1000 series trucks have the kick panel mounted VIN plate like the 55-59 trucks had. 1961 is when I believe GMC went to the slimmer tag mounted on the door jamb.

[David R Leifheit]

I just grabbed one of these on ebay. Not sure if original or reprint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182346385693?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It figures. I quit looking for a while and one turns up. Not only that, but for a good price (I see another one listed for $49, not "affordable") Congrats.
You will probably want the X-6023 as well though.

[AZKen]

So to speak to the purpose of the two VIN tag holes in a 1000 series GMC trucks' door frame; they are stamped out as part of the manufacturing process for that piece of sheetmetal which was indeed used on constructing Chevrolet cabs, and larger series GMC's where a different type of VIN plate may have been used. I checked my 1960 parts truck and it came with the kick panel tag and I also called a friend who is a local expert on early "knee knocker" trucks and he's never seen a 1960 GMC with a door post VIN plate. So, unless someone can provide proof of a US made (Mexican or Canadian assembly plant produced trucks very well might have had a door pillar mounted tag) 1960 1000 series pickup coming with a door pillar mounted tag I think its safe to say that all 1960 1000 series trucks have the kick panel mounted VIN plate like the 55-59 trucks had. 1961 is when I believe GMC went to the slimmer tag mounted on the door jamb.

I agree but I gave up, not worth it. The "proof" is hard to come by because there are 61's titled as 60's and, as I said, almost impossible to tell. Same motor, same series and so on. Especially with no title. The theory of different methods at different factories is weak in my opinion. You will find different methods at SAME factory, Then what do you say? Are you going to say that at the same factory they made two styles of tags in 1960 and workers had two different build instructions for 1960? More than likely a pillar tag 60 is a late 1960 build which was build like a 61. Is a 61, but titled/registered in 1960. As far as attitude, because I knew 60 had kick panel I thought poster was trying to pull a fast one on DMV. Thinking that he should have been able to get a title if truck had already been registered as he posted. So there would be a record of this truck and it's VIN in Texas. No mention of why no title or bill of sale. That was fishy to me. I guess he was not scamming, just not understanding his is not a 60. I guess Snazzypig and GMCNUT are wrong also.

[Funky61]

I wonder when was the last year those VIN plate holes were punched?

Could it be that the first location ended up being a bad spot and the plates would vibrate over time and fall off or the rivets were weak?
I see they got moved to the top part of the cab later on. Rivets on mine look cheap compared to the rosette style.

My 61 Suburban only has the kick panel plate. The two holes in the front pillar look clean and unused, but the truck did have a cheap repaint in it's past.
I'm the 3rd owner and the 2nd owner gave me original owner's old receipts and registration from 1975 showing it as 1961 model year. I have repair receipts going back as far as 1970 with the original owners name, listing it as a 1961.

First thing I tried to find was build sheet but no dice. I even looked on top of the gas tank. The original owner is still alive (89y.o., I think ) and I tried to call him but nobody picked up.

Either way 60 or 61 is all good with me :woo:

[AZKen]

Funky: Actual Mileage, wow, that's nice. Date first sold 00/00/61 is weird? I wonder if yours is a left over 60? We can now call this post a Trivia Post. Your rivets are correct for 60. Other 61 trucks show a different style. Rivets were under evolution as were plates.

Anyway the holes were punched in that upper A pillar section at the Pontiac MI GM truck assembly plant which built GMC AND Chevy assemblies. Most of the cab parts were interchangeable, would have holes for Chevy and GMC plate locations and would all be designed to accommodate Chevy or GMC dash sections. The Pontiac East Plant was on a massive GM campus which included the Metal Stamping Plant (Pontiac Metal Center). The Pontiac East was shut down and some plants were demolished on the property in 2009. "The shutdown of the last assembly plant in what was once a central production hub of GM is part of the forced bankruptcy and restructuring of the US automaker by the Obama administration". GM filled bankruptcy in 2009, was restructured (bailed out) and in 2015 was said to be spending huge money to renew the Pontiac metal stamping plant where many of our trucks were built. It has taken all this time to recover from the past "economy". We, the people, spent $50 BILLION to bailout GM and recovered all but $10.3B. We bailed out Chrysler too. Ford did not ask for our money.


RE: 60-61 ID.
Pictures of a particular truck in question including dash colors and the trim could possibly give some clues.
Windshield/glass code/dates, and other small indicators could maybe, possibly distinguish a 60 from 61. Wheels would, hub caps would, heater maybe.

[gmccollector]

Hub caps would ?

[AZKen]

Thinking of Chevy.

[AZKen]

So here is a picture of a truck from a member that is said to be 1961 and it's caption. This is what I said about same factory, different location does not make since. This could be a 1960 as the owner sort of indicates.
Same factory as poster. Kick panel location....and he has the unused pillar holes. This is a %100 nice original truck. Notice the rivet style also.

Caption:
"VIN 1001PN19787A breaks down as 10 = 1000 series, 01 = 115"; wheelbase, P = Pontiac, Michigan assembly plant, N was used for the 1960 & 1961 model years depending on when the truck was sold & titled new."

[AZKen]

One more bit: I only have Chevy info, sorry. But it does give insight to GM thinking on plates and has to be included to beat the horse dead. All 1/2T info.

Source: GM Heritage Center/Vehicle Information Kits

1960 no mention
1961 RPO 399 "Special Serial Number Plate"
1962 STD equipment "GVW Plate 5000 Lbs"
1963 STD equipment "GVW Plate 5000 Lbs"
1964 Index lists Regular Production Equipment p 6, no p 6.
1964 RPO Z55 "Special Serial Number Plate"
1965 STD equipment "GVW Plate 5000 Lbs" and RPO (no number) "Serial Number Plate (State of Pennsylvania)"
1966 STD equipment "GVW Plate 5000 Lbs" and RPO Z55K "Serial Number Plate (State of Pennsylvania)"
:deadhorse:

[jimjaz]

Hey there Angry Pirate!. and welcome to the site.

I (still) have a '63 GMC Suburban that I bought from my Dad in Feb 1973, and the VIN plate, or serial number, is in the same place as the pic you posted from Jolly's legacy page. The page does state that this ID plate should be in the location that is shown- outside of the door weatherstrip seal and about halfway up from the dogleg. Your 60 truck has the plate in the same location as my 63, and Jolly's info that he provided matches up for 60-63 as the right location. Also checked my K-1000 Suburban, and this VIN plate is in the same location. I've attached a picture showing this.

I do remember reading some time ago that Chevy trucks had the truck ID stamped on the driver side frame rail as you stated, but GMC trucks had no such stamping on the frame. This agrees with the several 62-66 GMC trucks I have owned over the last 40-plus years.

Good luck with your truck!

Jim

[AZKen]

This discussion is not about 62 and up plate location/style. There is no problem with 62 and up. 60 is different. Some 60's are 61. I believe that's all there is to it. Our 6066Club pages have already been modified to reflect no stamping on frame. Further modifications are being reviewed.

[gmccollector]

Hey there Angry Pirate!. and welcome to the site.

I (still) have a '63 GMC Suburban that I bought from my Dad in Feb 1973, and the VIN plate, or serial number, is in the same place as the pic you posted from Jolly's legacy page. The page does state that this ID plate should be in the location that is shown- outside of the door weatherstrip seal and about halfway up from the dogleg. Your 60 truck has the plate in the same location as my 63, and Jolly's info that he provided matches up for 60-63 as the right location. Also checked my K-1000 Suburban, and this VIN plate is in the same location. I've attached a picture showing this.

I do remember reading some time ago that Chevy trucks had the truck ID stamped on the driver side frame rail as you stated, but GMC trucks had no such stamping on the frame. This agrees with the several 62-66 GMC trucks I have owned over the last 40-plus years.

Good luck with your truck!

Jim

Jim , 1960 and some 1961s had a kick panel vin tag or as some say , serial # . 1961s generally have an A pillar VIN tag but it is a totally different style used from 1961-1962 and possibly on some 1960 GMCs. I have three 1962s , all have the A pillar VIN like my one 1961 does , it is a mainly a black colored tag and larger than the one you posted which started on 1963 GMCs. From what I have and what I've seen NONE of the A pillar 1961 1962 VIN tag trucks have kick panel GVW tags , they have the holes there but were not given a tag . 1963 GMC has the normal GVW tag on the kick panel and in 1963 they changed the VIN tag to a spot welded stainless tag like Chevys , some may have been riveted but my 63 is spot welded on from the factory. AngryPilot "thought" his GVW kick panel tag was missing , when in actuality his 1960 was left blank from the factory. Thats what this discussion was primarily about. I've asked him now to check the dates on his engine , he might get a better sense of when his truck was built by those dates.

Heres what a 1960 GMC tags look like on the kick panel with the A pillar blank.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj87/jon67427/1960%201961%20GMC/005.jpg (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/jon67427/media/1960%201961%20GMC/005.jpg.html)
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj87/jon67427/1960%201961%20GMC/001_1.jpg (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/jon67427/media/1960%201961%20GMC/001_1.jpg.html)

And this is what the 1961-1962 VIN tag looks like.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj87/jon67427/1960%201961%20GMC/012.jpg (http://s270.photobucket.com/user/jon67427/media/1960%201961%20GMC/012.jpg.html)

[AZKen]

Now we are getting somewhere. Good solid info gmccollector! I have come to the conclusion (I believe it's what gmccollector said) that 60 has all-in-one, GVW and serial on one plate at kick panel. 61's, if they are not left over/buy back 60's, have all-in-one, GVW and serial on A pillar. Some so called 60's were built in late 60 as 61's with 61 plates. The 61 style plate may have continued until a little later when two tags were used, a serial number tag on pillar and a GVW tag on kick panel. It seems like the 60 to 61 transition has a rivet change also, away from the 55-60 style. Some plates were indeed welded but either rusted or fell off sometimes. I have noticed the A pillar serial number tags sometimes carry the DD (Delivery Date) embossed. This area very seldom got completed with date. Thanks again for good clarification by gmccollector.
The "N" series does not allow us to identify 1960 dealer left overs and 1960 October, Nov, Dec built 61's, except maybe the build quantity number.....and the plates! :mys_solved1:

[Funky61]

Thanks GMCCOLLECTOR! I'm going to check my numbers as well.

[gmccollector]

Thank you Ken ;), one thing while looking at these though , from 1961-1962 , there are no GVW plates at all . If the VIN tag is on the A pillar , theres NO tag at all on the kick panel , that's what Im seeing anyway. I'm curious if that's consistent on all of them , I looked at about 8 original trucks

[AZKen]

Thank you Ken ;), one thing while looking at these though , from 1961-1962 , there are no GVW plates at all . If the VIN tag is on the A pillar , theres NO tag at all on the kick panel , that's what Im seeing anyway. I'm curious if that's consistent on all of them , I looked at about 8 original trucks

Yes I agree, that is what I tried to say above but not that well. All-in-one on the A pillar (all in one meaning GVW info and Serial No. and Engine info all on one plate that is on the A pillar for 61 and I guess 62. There is no other plate. It was not necessary. If we say "no GVW plates at all" it is sort of misleading.

[gmccollector]

We are on the same page now , just meant no GVW plate on the kick panel

[Funky61]

It's a 1960...or a leftover I guess

Well here are the numbers on my intake manifold and my exhaust manifolds.

Now I'd like to see some numbers from a 1961 as per this thread with just the plate on the A pillar.

[bobdylan]

Great info. A lot to be learned here.

[magicsm1]

:welldone: I guess that Im NOT the only one that AZKEN acts like this to. Seems to be a dark conspiracy behind his troll posts. lol

[magicsm1]

This excerpt from another member goes with my last post.

Another well known site validating mine is in the correct place. Let's see this manual you keep telling us about. Snap a picture for a brother, would ya?

Thanks again Ken for your rude and condescending response.

Always a pleasure. Please stop responding to any of my posts. :goodjob:

[AZKen]

This is a 15 month old post. I have learned and moved forward to do a study with the help of many members. Then I compiled a new VIN page and/serial number location, cypher, decoder, by years with pictures. Using info from all the owners here. Jeannie edited and posted the revised info. We now have the best known accurate information. It is always subject to input.

I am not sure what bringing this up 15 months later is all about. Refer to our pages if you have questions on Serial no's, plates, etc.

I will continue to respond to any post I chose and will not be intimidated by a JR. snowflake with sensitive feelings.
The link below is another attack from another post today. This one shows that he does not know that it's not his English I refer to, but his actual words to describe his situation. He got caught and is angry about it obviously. I gave the direct, honest and very helpful answers as to value. I do think that plain English is hard for him to understand or appreciate. Troll and Geritol are his limits.
https://6066gmcclub.com/showthread.php?p=68924#post68924