View Full Version : Interesting Article

October 26th, 2018, 09:10 AM

October 26th, 2018, 01:48 PM
Good info.

Thanks for posting it.

December 2nd, 2018, 05:13 PM
The Toro-Flow was much better thought of by drivers and mechanics than the later Detroit 8.2L Fuel Pincher. When drivers and mechanics get talking about Best and Worst engines, the 8.2L is always the First worst engine named.

Think the one I drove was in a 1982 F-700 Ford single axle semi-tractor, ran local delivery and eventually drove between Moline, Ill and Des Moines, Iowa and back every night. Engine did pinch the fuel really well, got 7 mpg pulling empty 45 ft 13-6 high trailer, typically loaded with 10,000# to 15,000# or a bit more coming home. But just could not keep it running on all 8 cylinders for more than a couple weeks, would drop one, then two, then three and four cylinders. By then your terminal velocity was in the single digits bobtailing!

December 17th, 2018, 06:21 AM
Neither the ToroFlow or the 8.2L really had a good reputation, but since the 8.2L was more recent it's probably more widely remembered today. The early ToroFlow was known for bottom-end failures along with injector pump issues. A lot or the crank/rod failures were attributed to over-speeding, particularly downshifting on grades. The pump failures were caused by what passed for diesel fuel in those days, along with poor maintenance. There were several fleets that did well with ToroFlows, and they all had good maintenance programs. Another ToroFlow issue was dealers spec'ing them in trucks that were just too heavy for a mid-range diesel. There was a 637 inch V-8 ToroFlow that was supposed to be a heavy duty engine, but there is very little information about them. I don't think many were sold.

The 8.2L was another story. It was supposed to be a high-economy engine for medium duty trucks, which it was. Had a couple of design features that caused trouble though. First was an open-deck block. The cylinders were free-standing with coolant passages all around and open at the top. This was O.K. in the naturally aspirated versions, but the turbo'ed versions were very prone to head gasket leaks. The other 8.2L issue was the injection system, which was similar to the unit injection used on Detroit 2 stroke diesels. It was hard to set up and a little touchy, but if you knew what you were doing it could be made to work. My company had a few mid-80's GMC 6500's with 160 h.p. natural 8.2L's, and they did O.K.. No powerhouse, but reliable and got very good fuel economy.

Tell you the truth I think the 6.0L Powerstroke/VT365 is the least reliable diesel engine, even less reliable than the Olds 350 diesel. Complicated, difficult, and expensive to repair, we had one on our fleet and I lost count of how many times it went in for major repairs.

December 17th, 2018, 02:07 PM
John Deere built two tractors with 4 cylinder open deck engine design, and similar to GM's philosophy, made gas and diesel engines starting around 1960. Even the most diehard Deere fanatic acknowledges them as a terrible design. Deere went a step further, the cylinders were part of the top deck casting, and the cylinders fit into counter bores in the base of the block. Failure mode was cylinders cracking off the top deck and oil and water mixing, OR top deck cracking between cylinders, and oil and water mixing.

Deere no longer makes replacement castings for those engines.

Not sure which Toroflow engine was in the Chevy C70 Dad drove, 478 V-6, or might have been 637 V-8. I was ten years old. I don't remember it sounding like the gas V-6's from a few years before. Anyone that would have known has passed away. No lower end failures, but it didn't get many miles either, the two Cummins powered Emeryvilles did most of the runs.
The 8.2L Fuel Pincher I drove was actually a nice truck to drive, got good milage, just could not keep it running right for long. On the flip side the IH FleetStar that replaced it with 478 cid gas V8 just ran and ran and ran. As long as you kept gassing it up. Got around 3 mpg vs 7 for the 8.2L. Back then diesel was cheaper than gas so 8.2L about 1/3rd the cost per mile to run.

Saw an article written by some diesel pickup magazine where readers voted on best & worst diesel engines. I was not shocked the 5.9 & 6.7 Cummins won, but was shocked the 6.0L IH V-8 Powerstroke Once Deleted, beat out the 7.3L PSD and the 6.9L & 7.3L IDI V-8's. SON had a '14 Ram 2500 CTD, got repetitive contaminated DEF faults, bought his DEF at local Fleet/Farm store, guess ALL DEF is made in Ida Grove, Iowa. After 4th fault truck dealer was getting difficult to deal with, so he had it deleted. No more DEF, tuner with 500 hp setting, no more contaminated DEF or any other faults for 1-1/2 yrs. He's now driving my '96 F-250 with stock 7.3L PSD as his daily driver, goal is to take it from my 300,000 miles to 400,000 miles and watch the odometer roll from 399,999.9 back to 300,000.0.