'65 3/4 305V6 fleetside rebuild

[ronn]

Here's my rebuild on '64 305V6 fleetside. It was purchased new by my grandfather, sold to me in the 80's then sold back to my grandfather who sold it to his son, my uncle, for use on his farm.
It fell into my hands again and i'm ready to bring it roaring back into glory!

[BillT]

Looks like a good solid truck.

Keep us posted on it.

[ronn]

Step 2:
The truck has been removed from the lot it was at, and is awaiting an auto transporter to contract with me for delivery.

[AZKen]

Very nice. Custom cab, all original, complete, power brakes, big window, all chrome trim and emblems present. Sweet. No damage, no rust? WOW! Good for you, especially with huge family history. One family owned!
I have had several trucks with that California mildew, moss stuff. Power washes right off.

[ronn]

Ken, there are 2 dents in hood where a tree limb fell on it, minor by the view of it. I know of no rust, time will tell when I get underneath...

I am trying to find a manual for it. My recall of history for this truck is it was a 1964, I cant find a '64 manual that instills confidence without knowing the model number. VIN only tells me it's a 3/4ton made in Pontiac Michigan with 127" wheelbase between 64-66.

Best so far has been a CD-ROM from Faxon that is complete manual and updates for $28. Worth taking a flyer on it at that cost.

[AZKen]

Well now, hold on there ronn. You need to read the Jolly page/GMC ID (recently updated). You will see that 64 VIN plate is in a different place than 65-66. Also your title will confirm the year. If no title, should be easy to get a duplicate since it's "all in the family."
If the original windshield is in place, broken of not, it is dated. The wheels, if original, can have a date. Memories of when someone did something with it in a certain year. Papers of any kind, oil change, build sheet in seat springs, etc.. You will also see in the GMC ID that there is a difference in grill letters (G M C) for 1966. All this can narrow it down or nail it.
A lot of effort was put into the VIN page and the GMC ID page. as well as all the other GMCCLUB pages. The club is the go-to place for 6066 GMC info.

Probable deductive rational interpolation: :headscratch:
1. If the VIN plate is on the B pillar it's 64
2. If VIN plate overhead and grill is non 66, it's 65
3. Overhead and red GMC it's a 66
4. If cab, grill or VIN have been changed, all bets off.

[ronn]

Thanks! The title is on its way by mail, havn't seen the truck in 20yrs so i don't remember where the plate is. There has been no changes in cab or body work done, the seats are original (although soon to be rebuilt :thumbsup:). The windshield has been replaced numerous times. The wheels were originally split rims that I replaced in 1985, don't know if that is any indicator...

I have been to the vin page and it only indicates 64-66 as a range. A mystery that I'm looking forward to finding out answers to soon!.

I am having one difficulty, finding an auto hauler to bring it to me... :pullinghairout:
--R

[AZKen]

Where is the truck and where is it going? If you post the from-to, someone may help.

[ronn]

My truck is stranded in Silwell, OK, and needing to get it to Bishop, CA. Be nice if it could happen before too much weather impedes.
It has no gas tank and no brakes so needs a winch to pull up onto hauler.

Anyone traveling that route or wants to, give a shout and lets talk!

[AZKen]

The good news is that I-40 is the most traveled truck route. East/west has many more haulers than north/south. There will be plenty of quotes available. Bad news is it's going to be $1000 and up. With $1000 being a steal. More likely $2000 w/non op, no brakes fees.

[AZKen]

From Fort Smith Craigslist: Don't know anything about them. Just a way to get ideas.

No broker
<br><font color='red'>To view some links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Maybe you should introduce yourself with a new topic?</font><br> They say all the right things. No pay until delivered and insurance. Don't get hung up on if they don't get there on time. Lots of variables, picking up other vehicles and weather and breakdowns.

Broker
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[BillT]

I know a guy who hauls reasonably but he is located here on the East Coast. He picked up a Rolling Chassis here once and is about to haul a non-running Impala to Wisconsin.

[ronn]

2000?! Oh my! I'm being told 1k should do it, my bid is currently in at 1250 but no takers. I can't afford much more than 1400 total and I've got 100 in towing already... a GOFUNDME might be in order ! ;-)

[BillT]

Keep looking. You should be able to find someone to haul it for $1000 or less. You just need to find the right person. A back haul would be ideal.

[ronn]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Bilt, I am guessing it is time of year (weather) combined with holidays as it being inoperable. That's my rationale at least until i hear otherwise ;-)

[BillT]

The guy I mentioned above is a small time independent. They seem to be the ones that can usually keep the prices down. I would just keep researching and checking till you found the right one. I had to bring two in through the years and had good luck with both. Both had very good service for very reasonable prices. I did spend a lot of time on the telephone though, lol. If you get a "no", always ask for a recommendation. That's how I found my last hauler.

[ronn]

BillT
I got a contract friday night from reputable, insured, bonded hauler. Truck should be in my possession thursd/friday next week!
Will post pics of the grand entrance!

[BillT]

Glad to see you are making good progress.

We'll all be waiting for the pictures.

[AZKen]

"Built" and I are waiting..............is it there yet?

[ronn]

Stuck due to weather. Teusday night mozt likley will show.

Felt bad for hauler too, delay due to weather was because he had 3 other pick up sites and they all last-minute-cancelled leaving him with delays causing run in with weather. So, ...good that i am a patient man.

[ronn]

Pics of some things in package sent to me by my uncle...
The personal notes are in my grandfather's hand, love the gas prices..15$ to fill the tank! :thumbsup:

[AZKen]

What is the charge for shipping the truck?

[ronn]

It will be 1350 shipping. I had additional 150 towing and storage too so, actual cost was 1500.

[snazzypig]

Really nice to have your Grandfather's notes. Can you figure what miles per gallon he was getting?

[ronn]

Based on page i posted, looks like 10.5

i remember getting 11-12 in the 80s, mostly highway miles though; his were city.

[snazzypig]

Sounds very typical. I get 10-11 in the city with my completely stock 61 with the good old Hydramatic.

[AZKen]

That is a reasonable price.

[ronn]

It has arrived. Let the Chaos begin!
Hood will require more work than originally thought, looks like the tree that creased it also hit the cab roof line. Other than that, at first glance in the fading light, very little rust issues.

[ronn]

Also, my wife got me a shirt for b-day to commemorate the event!

[FetchMeAPepsi]

Now that's a good wife! Glad to see you got it home without having to hop it. She's a looker! I can't wait to see how it goes!

[ronn]

So the VIN tag is on overhead of door frame, indicating i have a 65, not a 64? My family story seems to be flawed but, still love the truck & excited to get started!

[BillT]

Glad to see that you finally got it home.

Looks good.

[BillT]

Sounds very typical. I get 10-11 in the city with my completely stock 61 with the good old Hydramatic.

I mentioned this a time or two before, but right after one of my "super-tunes" my '66 GMC 1/2 Ton with the 305E, 3-Speed got 15 1/2 on an approx 500 Mile trip, mostly Hi-way.

[ronn]

Like all good things, there are challenges.
Rust in 3 spots that concern me. The hood, paint peeled as i washed and then put my finger thru the metal.
More concerning is at the cab overhang; same place both sides, can anyone suggest steps i take to repair, if possible. I worry where the rust/water goes as much as where the leak originated... anyone see this before? What suggestions do you have on repair?

[FetchMeAPepsi]

Rust is scary. The good news is "it's just metal". You can cut out the small holes and weld in new metal from a donor car or if the hole is small, you can just weld up the hole. Then just grind it down and paint it - good as new.

For that roof, make sure to spray in some rust killer before sealing up the holes. Kents makes an "inner panel rust-proofer" that comes with a straw. Many guys have used it in the roof panel and door panels with great results. Just poke the straw in, dowse it all down real good as far and wide as you can reach, and let it dry. Then seal it up and call it good. It should last another 100 years.

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If you don't know how to weld, take her to a welding shop or a welding school and they'll weld it up for you. But you need to do the cleaning work and rustproofing yourself.

Why:
The first thing i learned about having a classic truck was probably the most important. "No one cares about your truck but you."

People will tell you it's cool, they'll slap you on the back for a job well done, but not a single person on earth will take the loving care with your truck that you will. In fact, they're more likely to kick her, do half-rear jobs, and take short cuts with her repairs than to do her right. Every. single. time.

There's great welders on here. Bodywork guys too. I think WDShafter may be a bodywork guy, but I know he's a painter. I wonder if you can just be one or the other? :teehee:

Anyway, rust on these thick old trucks isn't a killer. You can fix just about any part of it with a little willpower and a $100 tombstone welder.

(sorry for the long post)

[ronn]

Thanks for reply, all info id valuable! I was spinning into despair for a minute when washing it this afternoon and my finger went thru metal... never a good thing in my book

[ronn]

Thanks for reply, all info id valuable! I was spinning into despair for a minute when washing it this afternoon and my finger went thru metal... never a good thing in my book

[AZKen]

Good advice from FMAP. Good news is sheet metal repair is not too difficult and is done by us all. (thin metal welding, however, does take a lot of practice). It's just cut out the old and weld in the new. Bad news is the windshield brow is PITA. Good news is you have to take the windshield out anyway because it's cracked and you have roof dents to fix. The real good news is that every rust area you have, INCLUDING the windshield brow, is available as a new patch panel, at pretty reasonable prices. There are welders and there are welders. You need someone who has done a lot of thin work. Some fixes may be done with just sheet stock. Use the pre shaped patches whenever you can.

The rule of rust fix is only fix what is rusted. Leave original metal. Don't cut more than is necessary. You only use as much of the patch panel as will meet this rule.

Dents are a separate entity and are repaired as per normal dolly and hammer or whatever new pull method you want.

Take off your emblems and trim now and store them away. They are valuable and hard to find in good shape. I.E. "V6" and "Custom", chrome strips.

Hood should come off for dent repair. Leave hinges attached to truck. Before removing bolts at hood, drill two 1/8 holes thru hinge flange and hood (don't poke thru hood!, use a stop). Drill these as far apart as feasible. Then when you put hood back on, use two drill bits in each hole to act as alignment pins, then install bolts. Hood will then be back to original position. May be OK then or at least close. Do this with any hinge or applicable assembly set. This can save hours of fiddle diddle with a very heavy hood or door to get them to fit/align.
A "stop" can be the end of a wooden 1" x 2" or whatever thickness is required. Drill a 1/8 hole in the end of the wooden piece. Be sure the bit stick-out is sufficient to "stop" bit from drilling too deep. Hold the other end of the wood piece with one hand and drill the hole in the metal.

It is very, very important that you identify all rust. It can be hard to detect if under the paint. You have to poke all over with a screw driver to find it all. Areas surrounding a visible rust out are usually thinner (tapered), on their way to rusting. So be aware of that. Too thin, cut it out.

None of this is trying to teach anybody anything. Many folks have more experience than I. You probably do. Just jotting down my thoughts and experience. Hope it makes you more comfortable to know that all this stuff has been done thousands of times.

[ronn]

AZKen, thanks for those thoughts. I am not skilled in welding but not afraid to try either... can you recommend a place for the molded metal especially around the brow & window areas?

I have another washing/scrubbing to do then should be aware of all rust spots. Dent pulls, bondo, then file to fit/paint to match (temp rustoleum) will follow. Window will prob be put back in for weather reasons after weld is done. Will replace window after final paint.

[AZKen]

Scroll thru these (<br><font color='red'>To view some links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Maybe you should introduce yourself with a new topic?</font><br>) pages. I buy a lot from these guys.

If your windshield is cracked, you probably can't put it back in.

[ronn]

Thank you for the link!

[ronn]

True I can't make window functional, just keeping the weather out as best can until spring.
Also,... what is PITA?
"Bad news is the windshield brow is PITA."

[FetchMeAPepsi]

True I can't make window functional, just keeping the weather out as best can until spring.
Also,... what is PITA?
"Bad news is the windshield brow is PITA."

PITA

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[ronn]

Ahhhh... a technical term! :thumbsup:
yep, it looks like it will be however, thanks to this board I have links to the preformed sheetmetal and can get it repaired as soon as I brush up on my welding skills! (or find a willing professional most likely).

[ronn]

Ordered myself a few filler/gromett parts for the gas tank and some rust cleaner in prep for removing / treating rust issues I have found.

... It's going to be a fun holiday!:upyes:

[ronn]

Sunday is the day... gas tank is on site, with filler neck, pipe and grommet as well as the sending unit. If all goes well, we will be flowing fuel to the beast for first time in 6yrs!

Soooo shiny!

[FetchMeAPepsi]

Sunday is the day... gas tank is on site, with filler neck, pipe and grommet as well as the sending unit. If all goes well, we will be flowing fuel to the beast for first time in 6yrs!

Soooo shiny!

I just did this too! My build thread has a step by step. Positioning the tank so that it lines up OK and sticks out the grommet on the cab is tricky, but it's something you can do yourself with patience. Make sure to stick the filler neck out of the cab a good amount or you can't get a good hold on the gas cap to turn it.
That sucker is tough to take off if you have fat fingers and didn't allow for that.

Good luck! Post pix!

[ronn]

So...
Installed sending unit, installed tank, then a bunch of other stuff ( plugs and wires and new battery)... turned the key and tank registers 0. Nada.
Turn the engine and it cranks but wont turn over.
Checking fuel flow tomorrow but wondering if there are any suggestions as to the fuel gauge and not turning over?

[FetchMeAPepsi]

So...
Installed sending unit, installed tank, then a bunch of other stuff ( plugs and wires and new battery)... turned the key and tank registers 0. Nada.
Turn the engine and it cranks but wont turn over.
Checking fuel flow tomorrow but wondering if there are any suggestions as to the fuel gauge and not turning over?

The sender only measures resistance. Make sure the ground wire to the cab from the sending unit is good. If you have a meter, you can measure the resistance from the ground post (has a nut on it) to the positive post (has a wire slipped on it) and see what it says.
There's a little nylon washer under the nut connection that some folks lose or forget. make sure that's there too.

[ronn]

it was nice to hear the engine crank a bit, will check the power and ground to sending unit next time. meanwhile, here's what we accomplished.

[ronn]

I know the existing wire is original and may need replacing given wear over time... any specific place to get that? What would i be looking for by name?

[ronn]

Well its a slow process, got the engine started but its not pulling fuel. Replacing the fuel pump is next. may replace the sending unit as i found it has a 30ohm stamped on it despite ordering a 90 (trust but verify).

Anyway, engine sounds good... just got to get the fuel to flow!

[jagarra]

A couple of places to check for fuel blockage. I have had to pull the fuel filter, bracket and all to clean it out completely to insure fuel could get that far. I then left the line going to the fuel pump unhooked at the filter. I placed a funnel with a short piece of hose on the on the other end where it hooked into the fuel pump and filled the funnel with Stabil. It took a couple of days but pretty soon that varnish build up in the steel line was dissolved. I could pore Stabil in the line and it would run out quickly.
Also there is a rubber line going from the pick up from the tank going to the fuel filter, mine was blocked solid, (low point) so replacing that was necessary.

[ronn]

yes, we blew out the lines, replaced hoses and filter completely. We siphoned fuel from filter to tank and tank to filter. the only thing left must be the pump imo... i hope!

[ronn]

So truck runs, only when jump started. Once turned off, it wont give any indication of turning over after a few minutes.
Jump start test for alternator: jumped, started then disconnected positive cable, no problems, engine continued to run, I am told this Indictates alternator is charging battery.

Any suggestions on what to replace next?

[James]

So truck runs, only when jump started. Once turned off, it wont give any indication of turning over after a few minutes.
Jump start test for alternator: jumped, started then disconnected positive cable, no problems, engine continued to run, I am told this Indictates alternator is charging battery.

Any suggestions on what to replace next?

Most of the problems I have encounter over the year on many different cars and truck is bad connections. With our 50+ year truck this is common.

If you hear no clicking of the starter when the key is in start then it time to use a voltmeter to check the battery voltage and battery circuits.

The voltage on the battery posts (not at the clamps) should be over 12 volts just sitting there with nothing turn on, do this first before you turn the key or anything else on. If it is under 12 volts disconnect the battery post clamps and charge the battery on the posts. This will give you a good opportunity to check the posts/clamps for cleanliness. Also if you see anything with a green color on the bare copper wire that indicate corrosion (and a bad connection) and the wire should be cut back until there is no green on the wire. You might have to extend the wire using the same gauge wire so it can be reconnected.

With a fully charge battery, turn on your headlights and measure the voltage on the post. It should be just over 12 volts. If it is below 12 volt the battery is either bad or it need to be charge (has a very low state of charge or with a fully charge battery it indicate the battery is bad).

If it still just over 12 volts you need to check the battery circuit with the headlights on and the key off for the following tests.

Note:
With every electrical troubleshooting, use a wire diagram to know where the wire are connected at and their wire color. Also going through a multi pins connector make sure all connection are clean and not discolored (which indicate a bad connection). That might also fix other issues that you have not gotten to yet.

Test 1
Keep the voltmeter negative lead on the battery post and place the positive voltmeter lead on the engine block. There should indicate less than .5 volts, the lower the better. If more than .5 volts then you need to disassemble and clean each connections between the battery and the engine block. Also look for wire terminal that has become discolored, this indicate a bad connection within the connector (connector will need to be replaced). If the problem is not on the negative side then check the positive side.

Test 2
Place the voltmeter positive lead on the battery post and place the negative voltmeter lead on the fuse block (find a connection that is hot all the time with the key off). There should indicate less than .5 volts, the lower the better. If more than .5 volts then you need to disassemble and clean each connections between the battery and the fuse block.

The test you performed is not really that valid. It only means the alternator is putting out enough voltage and current for the ignition circuit. However using a voltmeter you should have approx. 14 VDC at the battery with the engine running at a fast idle on a fully charge battery (on a low battery it might be indicating around 13 volts).

With a fully charge battery, the battery voltage should never drop below 9 volts while cranking the engine (if it does that indicate a weak battery).

This should take care of your cranking issue. This same technique can be applied to other circuits that is not operating properly (i.e. vent blower motor, tail lights, and etc).

[FetchMeAPepsi]

You didn't mention that the fuel issue was fixed with a new pump so others that see your thread know you got it handled ;)

(If you did, I missed it with my old eyes)

James nailed it there for the restarts. You can also remove the alternator (2 bolts) and take it down to OReillys and they'll test it for free. Same with the battery. That way you know you've got a good pair of juice makers to start with.

Also, you HAVE to gas the engine for 5-10 seconds to bring the RPMs up after starting to put the alternator in CHARGE mode on some alternators. Otherwise they're just spinning up minimal juice to the system.

[ronn]

UPDATE: Good, bad, uuugh-ly

Good: got the drive side wheel taken apart, repacking wheel bearings, got new brake shoes and springs, changing out hydraulic line too.

bad: replacement parts for brakes were incorrect, wait for new parts (small town delays).

uuugh-ly: started engine again and newly rebuilt carb that ran perfect 3wks before looked like a fountain of gasoline from same place as before... the accelerator pump rod hole. Any suggestions other than another rebuild of carb?

[ronn]

Back in the repair mode after a longer than expected winter-over. Repairs are so slow due to having it stored 300 miles away from me but, i'm anticipating a road test this July. Freedom!
Parts are ordered for lenses and wiring, need a little insight on refurbishing the dash lights, any experiences out there to share?

[Funky61]

Here's a great thread by FetchMeAPepsi

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[ronn]

So it looks like my truck was ready for halloween before I was! Yikes!:ahhhh:

...and talk about a thin brake pad, i got all the stopping power outta that one!

[ronn]

New master cylinder and booster going in soon with new radiator and i should be able to start on some wiring for brakes and turn signals soon.

Any wiring resources to order from for good replacement quality?

[lizziemeister'sV6]

Are you starting with your old tail lite/brake housings or getting new ones. If you can salvage enough using the original pieces I would start at the closest place near the firewall where there is good wire and run heavy- duty trailer wire to the rear bumper - from there you can wire your trailer plug and finish at the tail- lights. Do this for sure if your planning on pulling a trailer that has electric brakes - do it once and do it right. I'm not much on pre-made wiring harness that you up cutting anyhow.