Re: Not getting power to coil
 

You don't need a Pertronix coil. No No No. Use the one you have. Take all wires off of coil. Set MM to lowest ohm reading. One MM lead on pos, one lead on neg. Read ohmage. Ignitor II can use any coil with 0.6 Ohms or greater. This will all be explained in the Ignitor II instructions.
They do recommend bypassing the resistance wire. We will discuss wiring the Pertronix if/when you buy it.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Okay purchased the Pertronix 91162A Ignitor ll Will get it weds and install it.
Fingers crossed! And Thanks for all the help.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

I just added, then deleted, a whole spiel...That ended with buy points. If you got it at Amazon, you can change your mind. Sorry, after thinking it over and your situation and budget, I had to be honest. My timing was 15 minutes late.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Okay got the Pertronix. Measured the coil at 1.3 Ohms so that's good. Reading install instructions. You said best to omit the resistance wire?

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Previous had not notched the dist cap as noted so doing that. So wires don't pinch.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Instructions say you can do resistance or not. It's kind of a goofy situation. The way the have it shown is silly and a little misleading. I can explain if you wish but sometimes a truck's wiring is no longer original.

:shocked:I need to ask you to check some things before you go any farther.:shocked:

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

After installing and setting gap I tried to screw down the dist cap only to find it would not go. And that is because I had it backwards. So now I will cut yet another slot for the wire. At least I'm up to my usual standards of automotive work.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Okay ask questions. I did get the cap finished and on.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

I don't know if the original wiring on the coil was correct and need to see how the owner had it so we don't blow the new unit. On coil positive, you had a red pertronix wire, a yellow wire and a probable resistance wire. This is not per wiring diagram for 1965 and is not the way it would be done to use the resistance wire for pertronix. so..........the important thing is to tell me where the yellow and res wires went. You said firewall. Need more specific with pics if possible. Once I see all that, I can help you wire the new unit.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

I don't want to use the resistance wire. But let me take a pic.
the yellow and black coming through the firewall were on the positive together and even fastened together in a clip, but they just separated so
I was going to ask anyway. Gonna get pic now.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Ok good, explain where they go also. I understand you don't want to use the resistance wire.
Another thing, where there/are there any wires on the "R" terminal of starter solenoid? If so where do they go. This is info to help you, help others later and we may see why the other unit failed. Lets me advise on how to eliminate the resistance wire and wire the unit. You are at a good stage to supply info on the subject for the Club archives. Thanks.

Some of the Pertronix info/instructions about eliminating resistance wire or ballast does not seem apply to 60-66 GMC.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Sorry had to take a 30min course on how to use phone flash. Lets see if I attached this pic properly.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

I see some wires and some blurry stuff and a black window spider. But I don't know anymore than I did. Try another day. Read the post above. You may have forgotten again to look for responses. You must get into that habit. This is taking way too long because of that. I'm trying to stay on a roll so I don't have to relearn all this every other day.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Starter-pic

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

OK, it's my fault. I should have never asked for pictures. I should have stuck with a full and precise explanation from you as to what you see and where each wire goes. Meaning it's other end and how it got there. I will say you are now an expert at taking and posting pics. That is wonderful. Just remember wiring is tricky. It's important not to make mistakes. Especially if you are advising someone from 2000 miles away trying to look at a pic.

Read the posts, read my questions, get me the info. The other option is to wire it up. I'm not saying I'm taking over this deal. You obviously know how to read instructions and install it. That would also save me from any responsibility. I only do what the voices in my head tell me to do. :beer:

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Yup gotta rest ... below freezing now, and that Black widow is eyeing me like I'm the last juicy fly in town! It's always been a nightmare for me once it hits harness, but I'll try to figure by continuity where the black and yellow wire go.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

The idea of the ballast resistor, or later, the resistance wire, was to save the points. Make them last longer. Full 12V will burn them out PDQ. The resistance wire reduces the voltage to around 8-9 volts to the coil so that points last way longer. The starter takes a HUGE amount of amps and a lot of the 12V while cranking the motor. So much voltage; that you can't have it going thru a ballast or resistance wire to the coil during that time or there would not be enough voltage to fire the points/plugs.

So enter: the "bypass"
The original GMC wiring to power the coil was a pink wire from the ignition switch "on" terminal to the 6 pin connector mounted on the passenger firewall. As it came out of the connector on the engine side, it came out as a weird looking whitish, yellowish, oddly insulated nickel copper wire. The famous resistance wire. Which went to the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid. Also on the "R" terminal was a normal yellow wire. It went to the coil positive terminal. The operation of that "R" terminal is that it is dead most of the time. Dead meaning it does not provide any voltage. It's just a termination point for two wires. The resistance wire and the yellow wire. When the ignition switch is held at max clockwise for starting, The violet wire from the ignition "start" terminal sends 12V to the solenoid "S" terminal which energizes the solenoid, which causes the starter to spin. Voltage also flows from the ignition switch thru the pink, then resistance wire to the "R" terminal. But AH HA the solenoid has also given the "R" terminal 12V. This solenoid supplied voltage over rides or bypasses the lower resisted voltage from the ignition and sends full 12V thru the yellow wire to the coil. Motor starts, you let go, "R" becomes dead, now a termination point and coil only gets 8-9 V from ignition switch.

You don't have points so you don't need all that magic. You just need the ignition switch "on" terminal to supply 12V to coil positive for Pertronix. So two wires on coil pos, one on coil neg.
You don't need any wires to go to, or come from, the solenoid "R" terminal.

The reason I was asking where the wires went is:
1. I was looking for a wire to use for the coil and to see which needed taped off and/or coiled up to abandon resistance wire. If no switched power wire is found, you will run a new wire.
2. Trying to figure out why there was 3 wires on the coil positive. It's possible it was OK that way.
3. Wanted to confirm what Pertronix wiring instructions A. 2. says about following wire to fuse box and jumping is not applicable here.
4. Make sure I don't screw up.

One more aspect to this TMI saga. Back in 55-56, when GM went to 12V, which needed a resistance circuit, the starters did not have an "R" terminal. The situation was handled by the ignition switch alone. That's where you see "Ign-1" and "Ign-2" terminals on the ignition switch. You had a wire from each of those to coil positive. In start position, Ign-2 sent 12V direct to coil. Spring back to "ON" and Ign-2 was dead and Ign-1 sent 12V to ballast resistor. When folks reuse parts, they end up sometimes with an "R" starter and a Ign-1/Ign-2 switch. Then all h-ell breaks loose.

Keep notching that cap. I'm with you til the end.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Whew! Thanks for the detailed explanation. Since it ran for many years with no trouble with the 8v or so, I think I will go for it tomorrow and hook up as it was.
When I say go for it I just mean holding the plug to the engine to see if there is spark.
Pretty sure that initially it stopped running because of the carb but had plenty of spark and then I'm pretty sure I burned out the PerTronix l by starting it for days and battery charging another few days and prob leaving key on for a loooooong time as well. Hopefully the PerTronix ll doesn't burn out so fast.

So gonna give it a shot as is. What is the saying? "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Maybe the positve connections at the coil weren't broke. We'll know more in the morning. :ahhhh:

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Electrical is not my thing so just a thought.
The coil runs on 8-9V. If you run 12v to an external resistance coil it could over heat and it burn out. After looking at the 64 wiring diagram. Its looks like the resistance wire start at the plug in the engine compartment. Disconnect it, turn the ignition switch to the run position. And check voltage at 18-p-3 on the R.H dash bulkhead connection in the wiring diagram. If 12v. Pull the resistance wire pin out and replace it with a new wire and connect it to the coil. Then connect the Pertronix to the coil.
Or disconnect the resistance wire from the coil turn the ignition switch to the run position. And check voltage on the wire it could be almost 12v. If it is then connect wire and the Pertronix to the coil.
I think the amount of resistance in the wire depends on the length of the wire, the longer the wire the more resistance. And the resistance wire should go to the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid.

And go I would buy an internal resistance coil just to be safe.


64 wiring diagram

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

If it ain't broke fix it til it is.

By the way, it's tomorrow right now. Are you busy putting the fire out?

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

I wish, just went out and pulled the plug had my wife crank it and ... 1 weak spark and then none. :pullinghairout:

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Got pissed off said " F-THIS!" Went and got my huge 750 cranking hours BRAND NEW Marine deep cell threw it in, hit it with 1 shot of starter fluid and she fired right up. I guess a little voice in my ear reminded me of this happening before when I bought a 95 Chevy van. Beautiful van but of course it's sitting in the yard now with no transmission. Duh.

The battery that was in my 65 was not holding charge so I would charge it then work, cranked really well for 3 minutes but I guess it never makes quite a hot enough spark if it's a shot battery!

Anyhow the whole point of this (for the short term) is just to be able to lubricate the engine for the time being. I do want her up but at least I can keep her from degrading.

I'm thinking it would prob be a good idea to put that bypass in at some point too.

And THANK YOU sooooo much Ken! Your calm reminders kept me (somewhat) sane!

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

A lot of work to do she gently backfires so I will try to rotate the dist as per the instructions in PErTronix kit. And the carb is pretty bad especially accelerator pump, but at least she starts right up.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Good deal. I would suggest doing what the instructions recommend. No ballast, no resistance wire. Notice that 12V goes directly to the module no matter if resistance wire is used or not. This is the BIG MISTAKE folks make about using resistance with Pertronix. They wire it up like the points were wired. I fear that is what the other guy did.
Best to eliminate resistance altogether before you slow fry the Pertronix.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Electrical is not my thing so just a thought.
The resistance wire starts at the plug in the engine compartment. Disconnect it, turn the ignition switch to the run position. And check voltage at 18-p-3 on the R.H dash bulkhead connection in the wiring diagram. It should be 12v. If so pull the resistance wire and pin out of the plug and replace it with a new 18g wire and pin (not a resistance wire) and connect it to the coil. Then connect the Pertronix to the coil. No more resistance wire and 12v at the coil.

64 wiring diagram

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

That's a lot of work and it's 6 extra voltage drop points, 6 extra resistive terminations and 4 feet of extra wire with some resistance.
A straight wire would be best.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

.

Is this about my post if so I do not understand what you are saying so please explain. If not explain anyway.

Re: Not getting power to coil
 

Sorry, yes it's in regards to your post. Your idea will send voltage to the coil. That's true. I am describing the "tortureous path" of that method. Count the terminations and the length compared to one direct wire. I've seen you're other posts and I think you are more knowledgeable than you have said. So see what you think.