Grampa's 60
 

Figured I would go ahead and start the 'journal'.

Finally got the permit to build (a shade over 2 year process). Even though this isn't the truck itself, without it there's no restore. This was poured last week and figure to start the building assembly tomorrow. You can see the old girl sitting there waiting patiently :). Depending on what I find for help this could be anywhere from a week to 2 months project.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Good start! Is that you out there doing the concrete?

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Hehe, no way. Too much skill involved for me to be doing that. That is a buddy of mine/my pastor. He used to be a contractor and did a GREAT job on it.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Sweeet!, got the Pastor out doing the jitterbug!
It looks like a nice size shop. You going stickwall or steel?

Re: Grampa's 60
 

HAHA! yea, I guess all the pot lucks haven't completely ruined him yet.

It's 30' x 48' 2" which is about all I could fit on the lot without variances. It's all steel 'versa-tube'. Same company that makes the ones Lowes sells, but they had a plant here in town at the time (since moved about an hour away) so I was able to pick it up directly from them and cut out the middleman costs and shipping.

Ironic thing is though, I chose this one over the traditional 'red iron' buildings because of how simple they are and about anyone can put them up. They fit together like a puzzle basically and include everything. I had some guys come over yesterday to give me an estimate on putting it up though, cause I had some knee work done this year that has slowed me down a bit and they are friends of a friend and will be getting a pretty good price on it from them. But they get here yesterday and start off with "wow, we've never done one of these building before!" and the dad kept walking around it looking at it and mumbling "whew, this is going to be labor intensive"...seriously...4 or 5 times he said that..to no one in particular. So here I bought the 'easy' building, but apparently a lot more 'labor intensive' and it could cost me. Oh well, I've already decided, if they want more than $1000 to put it up I'll just go back to the original plan of doing it myself and hope to have it done by the end of the year :)

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Thats a nice size shop! I don't know anything about versa tube but if the friends of friends price is too high you shouldn't have too much of a problem if you approach it as a long term project and don't try to push that knee too hard. If I was closer I would offer to help ya a few days.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Roger that, and thanks, I wish you were closer :). That's okay though, I've got a couple neighbors that have been DYING to help me put this thing up, for some unknown reason. Labor is less the problem than it is the skill at this point. It'd make things kind of uncomfortable around here if one of my neighbors fell off and died putting up the sheeting, lol.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Maybe some of those neighbors want to do something similar themselves and want to see how it is done... or maybe they want to be able to ask favors later...

:)

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Hows the shop coming?
Its hard to get anything done during the holidays isn't it.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

LOL...YUUUP! The guy I had looking at doing the work finally texted me back last week. Apparently he had some severe health problems but to take SO long to get back to me...AND he hasn't gotten back to me since last week again already...I'm thinking I will be moving on and doing it myself.

The other reason I've waited so long is the building kit had a wrong part! One of the base rails too so I couldn't even start until I got it. That got here last Thursday.

I've got some time this week, where I'll see if I can get things laid out for anchors at least... hopefully. Then, yea, probably after the first of the year before I'll get back to it.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Take some pics

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Well, finally underway! Here's my primary laborer (son) putting in the last anchor bolt on the base rails yesterday. From there I've got a LOT of puzzle pieces to put together before there's any more structure to show. And, of course, it's going to rain ALL week starting Monday. Probably be end of January before it looks much different.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

So this stack is 6 of the 9 I need to build, and #7 laid out with a few of the 100 screws it takes in it. I did 5 of them on Saturday and I'm feeling it! Still, I should have all nine done by the end of the week, I think.

Once those are finished, they get stood up and it starts to 'look' like a building. Unfortunately It'll be 2 weeks before I can get them up. Has to be done on a weekend 'cause I need help (3 people minimum) and I am a 4H shooting instructor and have practice this weekend. Oh well, still a week earlier than I thought I'd have em up.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Its really great to see your son working with you!
If you get antsy or your friends don't show up you might consider renting a small scissorlift for half a day. You and your primary should be able to set all of them in that time. Just make sure that you have your temp stabilizing lines anchored and tied off at ground level before you raise the first one. Pm me if you want to chat about the setup.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Right, a scissorlift is in the plans for sure, but will be renting it when I get to the siding. I should have enough help (5 confirmed) to stand them up next Monday! I will PM you though. I made a pretty big mistake that I'm too embarrassed to say in public :). Maybe you can confirm my solution.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Ha! if thats the biggest mistake you make you're golden!!
PM sent
Rolling scaffold works well for the siding if your in good shape. Its multi level and its much cheaper than a scissorlift

Re: Grampa's 60
 

What a week! Holy cow, I'm hurting. In the last two days myself and 3 other guys got those stacks of steel turned into what you see in this picture.

This view shows the office walk door on the end. I still have to put frame up the other walk door I have next to the garage door, but that's it! then all the framing is done! I'm going to put some ratchet straps on the corners for a little piece of mind, because it will have to sit like this for probably 2-4 weeks. Obviously will need help again for the next step, siding, and everyone's schedules are pretty slammed for a while.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

NICE...Its a lotta work isn't it!
Straps highly recommended... At minimum one running down from each peak end. min length 1.5X the hight, 2X even better.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Quote from Versatube (the company I bought my building from)

"Weekends are made for garage building! With versatube building systems you can build a garage in as little as one weekend."..." You and a couple of helpers can cross off 'build a garage' from your weekend to do list in no time!"

Reality=

"The months of January and February are made for garage building! You and 7 friends/neighbors (or used to be friends), several of the bigger kids from your church youth group, a couple of day laborers, and 5-6 hundred dollars in lift equipment can cross off 'visiting the 7th circle of ****' from your to do list... and it may never end!

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Issues like you've been experiencing led me to take a different route. I hired a concrete contractor, then a carpenter, then a roofer, a garage door installer, an insulator, a painter, and a gutter guy. Got the 28' x 54' shop done in about 3 months. All I had to do was write the checks!

Good luck with your project! :getrdone2:

Re: Grampa's 60
 

There is no longer any doubt in my mind you did it the right way.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

AAhhhgh That brought back some not so fond memories!! You will get past it and it will be worthwhile... The pain will fade!!!

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Couple dozen more screws to put in, but nothing structural so giving my shoulders a little time to heal before finishing those. Next up electricity! Oh, and need to paint my walk doors so I can put the hardware on em and lock it.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Conduit I hope. Doesn't look like the framing has holes for wiring. If it does, and you don't use conduit, don't forget the grommets at each place the wiring goes through the framing.

Conduit though would be the better choice. Gauge 12 wire or 14? 14 is good up to 15 Amp circuits, 12 is good up to 20 Amp circuits. Normal/standard house wiring these days is 14 (15 amp breakers). If the cost isn't prohibitive, I'd suggest using gauge 12 wire and using 20 amp breakers since this is a shop and it is possible you would use a piece of equipment which comes close to the 15 amp draw. For instance I have a 110v arc welder that pulls almost 15 amps at the highest setting, my house was built in the 50s and the whole thing is wired at gauge 12 wire so I can feel confident in knowing that my little homeowner's welder won't trip the breaker.

Overbuilt can be a good thing.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Looks good!
:thumbsup:

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Note on wiring: I have a 110v plasma cutter the run amps are ~15, but the strike amps are 28. I have a 30 amp dedicated circuit for it. Review you equipment wish list (and specs) before finalizing the wiring plans.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

I'm just getting to the sub-panel planning. It's a 125 amp panel, but was only going to put 100 amp breaker to it. I was JUST trying to figure if I would need a 30 amp circuit or not, and I DO plan on getting a plasma cutter.

Figuring on 15 for lights (14-2 wire), 2-20s for 2 diff wall socket circuits (12-2 David) and a separate 15 for the air compressor. That leaves a 30 and I'll go ahead and have it in and figure on running the wire once I figure out where it will go.

Speaking of ... I got all the lights mounted and wired up. Just have some temp power to it till I get the ditch dug for the 3-GWA feed. The picture is of a few of the lights as I was mounting them...there's a LOT more and it is plenty bright in there.

Thanks for the tips all...I'm learning as I go and good to have, at least, confirmation of it!

Re: Grampa's 60
 

I would run 20 amp for the compressor, you can run more than 100 amps worth of circuits, as long as every thing is not on at the same time. I do not know what you would use a 30 for in a shop, you would need a 50 amp 220 for a large welder, 220 air compressor would be 20 or 25

Re: Grampa's 60
 

I run my welder off of 30 amps and it runs OK for about 20 minutes straight welding, but then I have to give it a 10 minute break or it'll throw. Bob is right about the 50, but my wires weren't thick enough for that size breaker. If you can do it, do it with the 50. The 220 compressor is fine on 30.

Oh, and I'll be running electric to my shed this summer too. I'd like to see details on that if you don't mind. I figure I'll tie off of an outdoor plug and go about 18" underground with that gray plastic pvc piping, but I have no idea what I'm doing. :teehee:

Re: Grampa's 60
 

*If* all you are running is lights... it isn't the best but should handle the load.

*If* you plan on running any equipment at all, even a drill or circular saw, run a new circuit. I had a separate circuit for my barn out back, and if I got real busy with the circular saw, and it bound for any reason, it and the lights tripped the breaker. Then it was a 150' walk back up to the house & breaker panel.
-well, until the tree fell on the overhead line and ... no more power to the barn.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

I understood the same thing as far as the breakers adding up to more than the 100 amp but was told by a contractor friend of mine that it won't meet code. Of course that doesn't mean I couldn't swap what was in there with breakers that add up to 100 if/when I ever needed to pass an inspection :)

Fetch, like David said, you might want to run a sub-panel. A plug will only do so much. I have an extension cord wire nutted to my lights and I'm running a string of 24 lights and my boom box size radio and satellite radio off the same plug from the house on an extension/surge protector, and I DID just run my drill off the same mess yesterday to put one screw in for the light switch gang box...but I turned off the lights first :). Having lights is great, but I would hate to try and run like that permanently.

Quick breakdown of the costs for the sub (round figures)
$170 for #3 wire for box to box run (60ft)
$30 for #4 bare copper ground wire
$22 for 2 grounding rods
$70 for 2 100 amp breakers
$40 for 125 amp sub panel
$25 for 1 1/4" pvc conduit (already have the glue)

Of course, I'll still have to put breakers in but haven't bought them yet. But all should be done for under $500. Not that I'm counting anymore...bleeding cash on this thing!

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Figured it was a good time for an update. Got a picture of the 'weathered in' building before I moved the carport next to it, then a shot after the carport was moved and another 20 ton of rock was put in to cover up the powered dirt on the lot. Of course, I immediately had to ruin that by digging the 3' deep ditch for laying the wire for the sub panel. You can see I did get it into the side of the shop, but still have to wire the sub and the main on either end. Hoping to get that done this weekend and have REAL power to it.

Only one car will end up in the carport but I still have to move a bunch of junk I bought for the shop out of the garage before the other one will fit back into it and it's already getting too warm to leave either one out of the shade.

I'll take some pictures of the interior for posterity but right now I'm so sick of it I don't want to look at it unless I'm inside working on it. I put up runs of bailing wire from end to end of the building, about 2.5' apart and am laying out radiant barrier across the wire, then stuffing batting insulation (r30) on top of the radiant barrier. Trying o make it look decent is probably the biggest headache of it...cutting around the can lights, etc. Of 6 6' wide sections of the building I am doing this way, I have ONE done in the last 3 days of working on it (sigh). Very tedious and I don't have much time before it gets too hot to work up there.

Oh yea, one other thing...neighbor down the street called me and wants to give me his engine hoist. He's had it for a year, was given to him by another neighbor cleaning out HIS garage of things he didn't use (I helped him push it to his house). He never used it, nor plans on it, so figured he'd pass it along now too. 3rd owner, never been used...hoping to stop that trend soon!

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Looks great! Hey on that wire you ran, did you do that yourself too? I've got a shed I'd like to run electric to and I'm wondering about the specifics. I was planning to tag off from an outlet (GCFI) outside and run it down some grey plastic PVC to the shed to run the lights and another outlet. Seems like the PVC would fill up with water though and short everything out.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

I would suggest that you invest in another circuit breaker for your panel, if you can. Tagging off of an outlet is not something I would recommend. Plus if you trip the GCFI out in the shed, you'd have to come up to the outlet you tapped into to reset it -if you wired it correctly-.

Talk to a local electrician and get some advice. Most places will require you get a permit to do any electrical (I think they still let you change bulbs without a permit and inspection, although I have seen some things people have done that make me wonder how they get out of bed in the morning).
Don't take chances with electricity! Of all the things you could mess up in a structure, electricity has (in my opinion) the most potential to hurt/kill you or a loved one.

If you have an open spot in your breaker panel, or if the panel will accept the double style breakers (I am hoping you have breakers) then run a good run of 12-2 grounded wire, burial grade, from the panel to a trench (12" deep I believe is the requirement, not an electrical inspector so I could be wrong) out to your shed. *Assuming* you are only planning on lights and hand tools. Anything heavier, like even a 110v welder, I would suggest doing it right and putting in a sub panel.

Safety first, last, and always.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Yes, I did it myself, but with advisement from a former professional. And my adviser was stricter than code (sigh). He suggested a 3' trench from the main to the building/sub panel, where code only requires 2', for example (what a difference 12 inches make in pain and suffering!).

Also, sounds like a big difference from what I'm doing to what you are looking to do though obviously. I'm running 100amp service to the shop and you just want some lights and an outlet.

David explained the right way to do it. You likely already have close to max outlets on the circuit you're trying to come off of from the house as it is. A new 20amp breaker in the box and burying the 12-2 'direct burial' wire really isn't that big of a deal, and not even much different then what you are talking about doing from your house outlet. In fact, using the 'direct burial' wire instead of the PVC probably offsets a fair amount of the effort and money differences in the two options.

I would never recommend (at least in writing :) ) not getting a permit. However, I don't personally believe getting a permit makes anything ANY safer. All the inspections I've had so far have been somewhat interesting conversations about knowing the same people in the community, what my plans are for the building, the weather, etc., etc. Permits help fund the county government, but it's MY desire to do it right that makes it safe.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Also, in addition to my adviser, I did a lot of research and youtube watching on the subject. In that I had come across this video. Your scenario reminded me of it so I went out and found it again. It sounds similar to what you are wanting to do and would be the 'right' way to to it, assuming it matches code in your area.



To view some links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Maybe you should introduce yourself with a new topic?

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Thanks for documenting your Versa-Tube build. I have been seeing ads for those buildings lately and was considering how "easy" they would really be since I need to get myself a shop built. The ads sure make it seem like it's no big deal. Ha!

Compared to the cost of your building, what's the cost of your slab equivalent, more, less? Trying to budget for it, though I don't think I will be able to go as big as you did.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

aphaynes,

Glad it has helped. I have to admit though, my struggles are most likely due to the fact that I am a system's administrator (Windows Server support guy) and my experience in construction to this point had been much smaller scale. I know that experienced folks can do it 'in a weekend' just like they say. I saw a youtube video on a building similar in size. Wasn't versatube, but basically the same thing without the 'swedge' technology of versatube. They had a crew of 3 and completed it in 2 days (not including the concrete of course). There are pictures of those guys walking around on the rafters though! That is NO horizontal support, SIX feet apart, 12-16 FEET in the air! Yeaaaahhh, no thanks! But, it definitely can be done...I guess.

The concrete ran me about $5500, and that is after a $500 bonus I gave to my buddy, mostly because he could use it. Retail, I would have spent probably $6000, so not a huge savings, but helped us both out some so still worth it. Of course it is somewhat dependent on location, but a 30'x50' pad, you'd expect to pay around $6k. The building cost me $11.2K, so concrete was about half again the building cost.

As much as I hated it, I doubt I could have ever built it had I paid someone to do it. I only got one estimate before I sighed and put on my big boy pants and did it...$10,500! Having done it, I'm not calling that a rip-off, just saying I wouldn't have been able to afford it.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Thanks for all of the great info! I'll be struggling to get it done at even the DIY prices. So, I'll probably have to budget in steps, like getting the concrete done, let that sit for a WHILE, get the building, and so on.

Again, I appreciate the thread you have here as it gives me a lot of insight to planning/budgeting to get mine done.

Re: Grampa's 60
 

Quick update:
1. She's runnin under her own power now. I just have 1 20 amp for the 4 outlets I've got run and 2 15 amps for lights/fans for now.
2. One LAST section of radiant barrier/batting to do. Ran out of radiant barrier so waiting for the last roll to come in.
3. All 4 fans are up! and just in time, getting HOT.
4. While I'm waiting on the radiant barrier, I started on the framing for the office. I did a drawing for the framing so I'd know how much material to get and added the conceptual drawing of the garage (both done in sketchup) that I did a couple years ago now and is basically what I'm hoping to end up with :).