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-   -   1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy) (https://6066gmcclub.com/showthread.php?t=47321)

FetchMeAPepsi August 11th, 2013 04:47 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Then slide the cover that we slipped on earlier back down over the plug. It has a little bump on the inside so it will only go on one way.



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My wire looked ratty up where it hooked to the compressor itself so I put a romex connector on that too.



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Here's this pic again. I put the plug-in box on the wall about 4 ft off the ground so it would be easy to pull the plug.



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The next thing I did isnt shown. I measured and cut off my electrical PVC, then drilled a 7/8 inch hole with a wood spade bit in my ceiling. Then I crawled up there and poked the end of my 10/2 romex wire down through the hole. I had the Powder Puff grab the end and pull it to the ground. Better to have too much wire than not enough, right?

Then I threaded the wire through the PVC pipe.



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Then I threaded it through the 90 degree waterproof connector. Lid first.



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Now I put the PVC up through the ceiling. Here's a pic of the ceiling, but it looks like the floor. Camera was upside down I think?



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Now for the plug. Heres a little tip. Don't strip your wires sheathing with a razor by pulling it all the way up or down the wire. You might nick the other wires inside! :ahhhh: Instead just use your dykes and snip the sheathing about 1/2 inch deep from the end like this.



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Then just peel it back with your fingers or with a pair of pliers. It peels back easy once you get a slit cut in the front.



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Now put connect your receptacle. Black is "x" or gold screw, white is "y" or silver screw, green is the bare or green wire.



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FetchMeAPepsi August 11th, 2013 05:37 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Now mash it all back into the box. If you have your square box with the single circular hole cover you can put it on now for a clean look. Mine still isn't here. That looks safe enough for the girls I go out with though. :lolsmack:




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The next part involves many hours in a hot attic. Make sure you have someone to watch you in case you start shooting sparks from your ears.



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In the attic I crawled through the yuk and tacked down my romex with these little plastic clips with nails on them.



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Here's the run. The door shown was my lie-down un-comfy spot.



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Next I found where my oven went down the wall. My oven is one of only a couple of 30 amp breakers in my box so I thought it was a good candidate for a tie-in. I turned my compressor wire 90 degrees when I got even with the oven's location so I could keep the run as straight as possible.



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Here's the compressor wire (orange) next to the oven's wire (black). Now I put my hotstick against the wire and sure enough it is hot. I had the Powder Puff run inside and flip the oven breaker on and off in 5 second intervals. The blinking of my tester was every 5 seconds so I knew it was the right wire AND the right breaker.



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Never trust your breaker box's hand written labels. Always test!

After testing, retesting, and testing my tester, I made my cut. Powder puff was on standby with 911 ready. I don't know what I'm doing, did I mention that?



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I chewed off the sheathing with the dykes.



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Then I cut the wires. I didn't fry so thank goodness for that. I splayed them out and took another 1/4 inch of insulation off the ends.



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I ran them into the box and tightened the clamps on the side. My oven wire was TIGHT. I barely got them into the box. I may never get it tied to the stud behind it.



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I ran the Romex in through the top.



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I then got to wiring. My oven is 4 wire and my compressor is 3 wire so I had to study up on that. My thinking was to just wire the oven back up with wirenuts and put the other wires under the same nuts. The oven wire was so tight that I had to make 6 inch wire bits and tie them to each side. If we call the incoming wire from the breaker the "incoming", the outgoing wire to the oven the "outgoing", and the compressor the "romex", this is how I wired it up.

Incoming white ----> Outgoing white
Incoming ground ----> outgoing ground AND romex ground
Incoming Red ----> Outgoing red AND romex white
Incoming black ----> Outgoing black AND romex black

I did have to trim some of the bottom skirt off of the wire nuts to get them to spin but in the end this is what I finished with. It looks awful.



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When I finished and unwound my poor back muscles, I laid the hotstick in the box o' nuts and had the Powder Puff go QUICKLY flick the breaker on and off. Snip snip! It worked and didn't send me into a fit of fireworks. So I had her try again for a 5 count. Still no sparks or weirdness. So I had her turn it on and leave it. Then I crawled down and tried the oven. It worked! Good start for a newbie, eh?

Finally I put a label on the box so I would know which breaker it uses (or for the next owner) then I plugged it in. I flicked on the compressor.....it roared to life! SUCCESSSSSSS! :champagne:



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I didn't have any more time to play with it tonight but tomorrow I'll pressurize it and test it for leaks and the cutoff. It was past the Powder Puff's bedtime. Poor little girl worked her butt off today with her Daddy. She deserved a story and some snooze time.

WARNING: this is just what I did. You shouldn't do anything with electricity. It can kill you. It probably will. Just call an electrician and don't be a tightwad like me. :goodluck:

WDShaffer August 11th, 2013 06:02 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Awesome gift you have there. Now you will be able to use any air-powered tool at your disposla into all hours of the night! :ahhhh:

You will really appreciate the compressor when it comes time for painting--believe me. Congratulations, Fetch! :champagne:

And with 220 that handy, you will now be looking for a 220V mig welder, then a plasma cutter, then...

FetchMeAPepsi August 11th, 2013 05:27 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WDShaffer (Post 49702)
Awesome gift you have there. Now you will be able to use any air-powered tool at your disposla into all hours of the night! :ahhhh:

You will really appreciate the compressor when it comes time for painting--believe me. Congratulations, Fetch! :champagne:

And with 220 that handy, you will now be looking for a 220V mig welder, then a plasma cutter, then...

I'm already looking for a 220 mig welder after that frozen nut ordeal. Feeding the monster! :poke:

For painting I did say earlier that I was going to try it with my 20 gallon single stage to try to make it more budget friendly but now unless someone asks me to paint with it for a detailed post I'm totally going with Big Red here. WHOOSH!!!!

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:laugh:

jbgroby August 11th, 2013 09:40 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Fetch,

Not to be picky, but on both of the junction boxes, you have too many connection for the size of box you're using for the one in the attic, are there any electricians on the BB? I know it will be a pain, but you might consider upsizing the box to the next size larger or so. The draw on the wires may cause a heat issue.

The junction box with the orange wire as well is too crowded as well. I've learned a few thing from my electrical studies.

Foley August 13th, 2013 05:49 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
I've done that splice stuff in the attic job before and it's about as much fun as a doe it urself root canal. I'd agree with jbgroby on the size of those junction boxes. It also would be safer if that compressor had it's own dedicated 30 amp circuit but I'm figuring you already checked that out. Just be careful not to run the compressor while the little woman is baking something. I don't know if it would trip the breaker, but it could really heat up those wires sucking that many watts through those wires. And it goes without saying Mr. FMP that having a nice 80 gal unit is a dream come true. Congratulations.

FetchMeAPepsi August 13th, 2013 03:14 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jbgroby (Post 49713)
Fetch,

Not to be picky, but on both of the junction boxes, you have too many connection for the size of box you're using for the one in the attic, are there any electricians on the BB? I know it will be a pain, but you might consider upsizing the box to the next size larger or so. The draw on the wires may cause a heat issue.

The junction box with the orange wire as well is too crowded as well. I've learned a few thing from my electrical studies.

Its already a 4" box and the space is kinda cramped. Would it be OK to do my pigtails on a separate box? Like this:



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Quote:

Originally Posted by Foley (Post 49737)
I've done that splice stuff in the attic job before and it's about as much fun as a doe it urself root canal. I'd agree with jbgroby on the size of those junction boxes. It also would be safer if that compressor had it's own dedicated 30 amp circuit but I'm figuring you already checked that out. Just be careful not to run the compressor while the little woman is baking something. I don't know if it would trip the breaker, but it could really heat up those wires sucking that many watts through those wires. And it goes without saying Mr. FMP that having a nice 80 gal unit is a dream come true. Congratulations.

Yeah that's going to be a discussion because sometimes while we're outside working the redhead (emblem painter) will surprise us with brownies. I'll have to be careful to let them know when I'm using a tool that is heavy on the air.

FetchMeAPepsi August 16th, 2013 04:15 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
My covers finally came in so I put the round-hole cover on my compressor plugin and my box in the attic. Then I ran the oven AND the compressor at the same time. The breaker didn't trip and the box registered 91 degrees after 20 minutes. I still might run another box up there for safety's sake but it seems ok so that'll be a job for another day.

The compressor plug looks professional though. I'm pretty proud of it :D



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I spent time throwing things away, cleaning out the garage, and watching the kids draw cityscapes on my driveway with chalk. Good times. :bigdance:

After the final sweepup I banged my leg on those fender support rods I mentioned earlier. That was the last straw. I had an hour to kill so I got my 9/16 wrench and my 9/16 socket then spun the rods off right quick. No sweat.
I forgot to take pics though because one of my kids was playing with my phone. Here's a pic of the hole to remember where they go.



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Then I wire-wheeled the dirt and rust off. After that it was off to the paint board. Well, not really. I heard about this really neat stuff called

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that turns rust into a hard black INERT (non reactive) coating. It's great for hard to reach stuff that won't wire-wheel well like my next project.

I sprayed them down with this stuff liberally after wire-wheeling. They'll get another brush-off tomorrow then they'll get coated in bed-liner because they're in a very harsh environment right there by the wheel.



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After that I grabbed my tire mount and started wire-wheeling it. THis is where having the Ospho stuff really came in handy.



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I wired as best I could but there are some very tight corners in here. I couldn't get them as well as I would have liked. So I did the best I could and sprayed this Ospho stuff all over it. It turned out shiny and puurrrrty. The pic on the other hand was blurry as all get-out.



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That's all the time I had today. Next thing will be power-washing all the dirt and rust off the frame and rear end. I took a screwdriver and poked at some of that rear axle dirt today. It is every bit of a quarter inch thick and hard as concrete. I'm not going to try sandblasting through that mess. :ahhhh:

Vernski August 16th, 2013 05:57 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Hi Fetch I ran across this thread on the 60's forum thought it might be of interest to you and others over here. It's an air tool that may be better than sand blasting check out the link..Vernski:ahhhh:



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FetchMeAPepsi August 16th, 2013 03:03 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernski (Post 49796)
Hi Fetch I ran across this thread on the 60's forum thought it might be of interest to you and others over here. It's an air tool that may be better than sand blasting check out the link..Vernski:ahhhh:



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That's pretty neat! I saw it yesterday and ran over to harbor freight and put one in my cart. Ha ha! Great minds think alike! :lolsmack:

I hate videos but I watched that one. This thing is very loud. Im thinkin earplugs would be a good idea with it.

FetchMeAPepsi August 19th, 2013 05:14 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Saturday The Blonde went shopping with the Powder Puff so I didn't get anything done. Today was a different story. I backed Cecilia out and for a "please" and a "thank-you" I paid two little helpers to spray cleaner all over the frame, rear end, and transfer case.



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Then out came the power washer. The boy wanted a shot with it so I let him try. He did pretty well. He thought it was cool that it was so strong that it blew chunks of dirt off of the transfer case.



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Check out his work on the transfer case. It was a black greasy mess before.



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The rear end cleaned up nice too. I'll be pulling it apart soon and painting it. Dirt wasn't good for the paint.



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While Cecilia dried I painted the bits from last time.



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After that we had time to make a batch of coffee for this month. Yum!



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We capped the day off sitting on the swing and talking about the sunset. I'm not ready for Monday. :noway:



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Vernski August 20th, 2013 03:18 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Hi Fetch are you grinding coffee ahead time or just a pot at a time? Just curious witch way and what kind of coffee you were grinding? I'm a coffee nut without a few cups in the morning It's not good to be around me or safe..Vernski:poke:

FetchMeAPepsi August 20th, 2013 05:32 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernski (Post 49851)
Hi Fetch are you grinding coffee ahead time or just a pot at a time? Just curious witch way and what kind of coffee you were grinding? I'm a coffee nut without a few cups in the morning It's not good to be around me or safe..Vernski:poke:

Me and The Blonde are heavy drinkers too. That pic shows me and The Boy roasting coffee beans. I dont grind till it's time to brew. They're cheaper (scottish tightwad in me again) and I get a kick out of roasting them. It's a good teaching time. I get to roast them how I like them too so thats a bonus.

Dark and smokaaayyy!:guzzle::guzzle::guzzle:

We go through a gallon ziplock bag of Sumatran every month plus a 2 quart tin of "special" roast. Usually some kind of french espresso blend. Yeah, we're dangerous around coffee.


I tease The Blonde that it'll take us two weeks to stop movin once we die just to burn the caffeine off. :scared: She doesnt think Im funny.

Vernski August 20th, 2013 06:13 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Fetch never tried roasting the beans, been thinking about giving it a try as I've seen the un-roasted beans for sale. My lady is a Tea person when I say coffee she looks at me like I stepped in something. But that just leaves more for me to enjoy, cause life has it's trade offs..Vernski:egyptian:

FetchMeAPepsi August 20th, 2013 06:32 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernski (Post 49857)
Fetch never tried roasting the beans, been thinking about giving it a try as I've seen the un-roasted beans for sale. My lady is a Tea person when I say coffee she looks at me like I stepped in something. But that just leaves more for me to enjoy, cause life has it's trade offs..Vernski:egyptian:

Haha! it sure does. You can roast em real easy just get yourself one of those old airpop popcorn poppers (13 bucks at walmart), cut the bottom out of a tin can (to elongate the popper's neck), and buy green beans. They take longer the first pound or so as the popper gets seasoned but after that you get a stuffed gallon bag of beans in about 45 minutes. A tin in about 15 mins.

If you try it let me know how it turned out :yeeuh:
If you need a step by step I'll take pics next time too. Too bad your not closer I'd just show ya over a steaming cup!

Now Im going to pm Jeannie to see if we can have a coffee drinking icon guy :D

FetchMeAPepsi August 27th, 2013 10:40 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
A

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yeahhhh! Today my needle scaler that Vernski MADE me buy came in.



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I was running around in my undies since the kids are all in school so I couldn't pull the truck out for a real test, but I fired up my ultra-pressor and plugged it in. It's not really as loud as they make out on the youtube videos. You can run it without earplugs in a garage in your underwear. :poke:
But for any long term stuff I'll have ear protection on. And eye protection.
Here's my spot after about 20 seconds.



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That part in the middle that looks like missed paint is shiny metal. I don't knwo why id didnt show up right.



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It's not as fast as sandblasting, but the results are similar. And it's probably better on the lungs. I'll know more next weekend when I can get under there and really get after it.

Vernski August 28th, 2013 04:37 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
I knew you were good for an endorsement Harbor Freight will be pleased..Vernski:goodjob:

FetchMeAPepsi August 28th, 2013 11:14 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernski (Post 49910)
I knew you were good for an endorsement Harbor Freight will be pleased..Vernski:goodjob:

AHHH! I've been manipulated by tha' man! I feel like such a



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Wait, maybe they'll send me money or more tools...Or maybe trade me money for tools. Yeah, this could work out!

Today I got in my order of gear oil for the differentials. I may have mentioned it but I ordered Red Line part number 57904, it's 75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil. I ordered 3 quarts since they should take 1.3 quarts each. That'll leave me a little left over for learning and mistake-makin.



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I also got in a set of rear ultra quiet brakes from Wagner. I can't put things on until next weekend but when I get started I gotta get a lot done because its only 4 weekends before I need to put the bed back on. Ive been taking pics of every kiddo on the stepside on their birthday since we got Cecilia and the next birthday is coming up quick! :ahhhh:

FetchMeAPepsi August 29th, 2013 08:07 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
I had to make a run to get some cedar logs for gate posts today with the lil' blonde. It was a good excuse to take Cecilia for a spin on a 30 mile run to see how she did engine-wise.

The engine held up great.....The tranny? Well... We'll get to that.

Things started off smooth. We gassed up with an extra 2 gallons just to be safe.



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On the way, waving and singing

Quote:

Rollin' down a backwood
Tennessee highway
One arm OWWNNNNN Tha wheel!
Hold my munchkin,
with the other
A sweet soft southern thrill!
Worked hard All Week,
Got a little jingle (ching!)
On a tennessee SAAAAT-ur-dee night!
Couldn't feel better
We're together
With my Dixieeeeeee land Delight!
Those aren't all the right lyrics but we sing funny. Be glad you werent there.



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At the sawmill we met a big longhorn bull. We thought he was a car salesman because as soon as we saw him he started this... :lolsmack:



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Logs loaded, headin back



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Then it happened on this winding stretch with grass so high it was over the roof in some places....SCREEEEEECHHHH!!!!!



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I had just let off the gas a little and the transmission or the transfer case let out a loud squeal like rubbing metal. We were still about 10 miles from the house. We started prayin. :nervous:

When I pressed the gas petal again (put it under load) it stopped altogether. Then it squealed constantly any time I let off the gas to slow down or pushed in the clutch to shift. Anytime the engine wasn't pushing on it the tranny or transfer case was singing it's banshee song. :ahhhh:

I got out at the next stop sign to take a peek but nothing was hanging out, tied up in the axle or looked suspicious so it had to be inside somewhere. I thought maybe squirting the transfer case with all that water under high pressure caused it to suck up water and maybe that was the problem.

We made it home thankfully. i put the baby down for a nap and pulled out the book to see how to drain and refill the fluids right quick.

The manual said "check the fluids. To work on it drain and replace the fluids. See another page:



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that page said "fill to top of filler plug". No help at all!



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I just bought an owners manual and thankfully it told me the capacities, but not the where/how to!



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Grrr :mad:


So I crawled under her and looked. There's too many plugs.
Transfer case:



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Tranny:



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I asked in the transmissions forum. Hopefully someone will have an idea for me.

Vernski August 29th, 2013 09:19 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Looks like your on the right track Pepsi the plug at the lower level is the drain. When empty replace the drain plug leave the top plug out then fill with gear oil till it runs out then replace the plug. Most all trucks and pickups are the same in the way of checking the level of rear,trans or trans-case. In finding what is making the noise take off the drive shaft. Run the engine with the transmission in gear and that being a 4 wheel take the front shaft off also. that should tell you where the noise is coming from. It is possible it could be a U joint but I don't think so. The process of elimination as simple as it gets. Hey that Red Line gear oil is good stuff the fleet I drove for used it in all there trucks. Good luck on the problem..Vernski:goodluck:

GMCDAC August 30th, 2013 01:01 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
On the transfer case I would recommend just draining out your old gear lube and then adding the amount that your specs say and do it slow with those upper plugs out. If you have a lot left when you get to the first plug, plug it and keep addin' the gear lube. The tranny is simple enough but It wouldn't hurt to drain it and refill too If you haven't. You couldn't have gotten any water in them while pressure washing. Even if you did a change of lube would be needed.

I don't think those would squeal like you describe though, it kinda sounds like a throwout bearing might be trying to seize up. That could damage the pressure plate and clutch fork quickly. Another possibility is the pilot bearing, which has to spin when the clutch is pushed in and in either case the tranny has to come out. That one can hurt the input shaft on the tranny. Hope it is an easy fix for you.

Later---DAC

FetchMeAPepsi August 30th, 2013 04:59 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernski (Post 49933)
Looks like your on the right track Pepsi the plug at the lower level is the drain. When empty replace the drain plug leave the top plug out then fill with gear oil till it runs out then replace the plug. Most all trucks and pickups are the same in the way of checking the level of rear,trans or trans-case. In finding what is making the noise take off the drive shaft. Run the engine with the transmission in gear and that being a 4 wheel take the front shaft off also. that should tell you where the noise is coming from. It is possible it could be a U joint but I don't think so. The process of elimination as simple as it gets. Hey that Red Line gear oil is good stuff the fleet I drove for used it in all there trucks. Good luck on the problem..Vernski:goodluck:

Thanks Vernski. Do you mean the transmission plugs are labeled right? The transfer case has two "upper" plugs, one way higher than the other. Not sure which one it should be.

Common sense says more oil is good so Im thinking its the top one way up by the bottom of the cab but it could be splash lubed I guess? 4wd isnt really documented much that I can see anyway. At least not till this build is complete haha!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMCDAC (Post 49936)
On the transfer case I would recommend just draining out your old gear lube and then adding the amount that your specs say and do it slow with those upper plugs out. If you have a lot left when you get to the first plug, plug it and keep addin' the gear lube. The tranny is simple enough but It wouldn't hurt to drain it and refill too If you haven't. You couldn't have gotten any water in them while pressure washing. Even if you did a change of lube would be needed.

I don't think those would squeal like you describe though, it kinda sounds like a throwout bearing might be trying to seize up. That could damage the pressure plate and clutch fork quickly. Another possibility is the pilot bearing, which has to spin when the clutch is pushed in and in either case the tranny has to come out. That one can hurt the input shaft on the tranny. Hope it is an easy fix for you.

Later---DAC

I was planning on doing the fluid chances as I moved up the drive train bit by bit. I wanted to pull them out and re-do all of their seals. My oil pan leaks almost as bad as the rear end. This might force my hand on the trans though. :(

Which part is the throwout bearing? I took pics here for raycow and I saw a fork and a spinny metal sleeve. Everything else is covered by a big metal (cast iron?) circular thing. Do I need to try to take that off too?



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Thanks for the help guys. Any newbies reading this pay attention! Best club ever. :yourock:

tommyduncan August 30th, 2013 06:25 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
The throwout bearing is the spinny sleeve thing. The pilot bearing is in the end of the crankshaft.
I'm not sure what the upper bolt is on the transfer case but I doubt it is a fill hole. It could be an inspection hole or an optional place for a vent tube if it was used in other vehicles?

FetchMeAPepsi September 3rd, 2013 04:24 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tommyduncan (Post 49952)
The throwout bearing is the spinny sleeve thing. The pilot bearing is in the end of the crankshaft.
I'm not sure what the upper bolt is on the transfer case but I doubt it is a fill hole. It could be an inspection hole or an optional place for a vent tube if it was used in other vehicles?

The upper bolt "hole" turned out to be a linkage shaft covered in grime. Tasty! :lolflag:




This weekend I took off to the Blonde's parent's place for what I thought would be some fishin and heavy duty BBQ. Instead I was surprised with this bunch o goodies. I can never tell if her dad can stand me (I stink at reading people) so little things like this really make my day.



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If any of you guys have sons-in-law that you care about do something nice for them. It really makes a lasting impression.

As an encore he welded my stepside brace where my bolts broke off. We found 1/2 inch bolts that were almost exactly like the originals. Tack, tack. The nuts attached.



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Back at the house I turned my attention back to the tranny. The spring I found was some kind of fork return spring for the shifter fork. I hooked it back up like this but it still made that awful skreeching noise.



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The transmission cover plate was filthy and grimy with some kind of oil or grease so I put it in a bucket and poured my carb cleaner jug into it. Then I wiped it down with the fluid until it started coming clean.



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Start to finish was around 10 minutes.



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Now that it was clean I could see it had a big dent about the circumference of a finger in the front of the pan. I thought it might be a good opportunity to try my hand at smoothing out a dent. Here's the original dent. It's on the ridge to the left of the blue hammer handle in the pic.



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I lightly scuffed it with sandpaper to better see where it was high and low. Then I banged on it with the pointy end of the Eastwood body hammer I mentioned earlier in the thread. I used the one that is the pointiest like an old kindergartener's pencil.



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I alternated between banging on the dent using just a little more than the weight of the hammer and lightly sanding the other side to check the progress. After 20 minutes I had this:



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Not too shabby right? I was giggling like a school girl. I must have been too loud though because the Redhead came out grumbling about all the banging noise. So I told her I was done and had to wire wheel this cover. She halfway showed some interest in trying it.

5 minutes later she was hooked.



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FetchMeAPepsi September 3rd, 2013 04:39 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
It took her about 20 minutes of wheeling to get this. :woowoo:



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Meanwhile I ran my new grinder with my compressor on the welds. Followed by a wire wheel and some Ospho spray.



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Then I sprayed her cover with bedliner like everything else that lives under the truck.



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FetchMeAPepsi September 3rd, 2013 05:06 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
And that was the end of my procrastination. I tried driving Cecilia with the spring back in place. It didn't help. I had the Redhead listen as I drove slowly past so she could hear the squeak. It was coming from up under the cab so that meant the transmission and not the transfer case. I'm not sure yet if that's good news.

I rolled up the sleeves on my sleeveless shirt and got started. I used a 5/8 inch wrench and drained the oil into a pan. It was a pretty good amount but it smelled like butt.



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Next I started to remove the linkage. The little cotter pins didn't budge. They're really frozen in there. So I removed the bolts instead. They're 9/16".
As I took them off the Redhead wheeled them too. I've created a monster.

Bolts out, I had to tickle them with a hammer to get the brackets off the pins. Then I labeled them for reconnecting.



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Moving rearward the next connection was the 4WD shifter. I pulled the two bolts off of the tailshaft on the tranny to get that free.



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Finally I thought I'd need to pull off the little mini drive shaft between the transmission and the Rockwell T221 transfer case. I found four bolts on the end of the driveshaft by the transfer case. They were 1/2 inch. I worked all four of them off but the thing didn't budge.



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So what could I do? It practically begged me to hammer on it. Who am I to disappoint? I hammered on it a little then I would switch off to prying on it with a big honking screwdriver. Finally I got it to slip out of one side. From there I worked it free of the other then banged the little U-bolts out with a hammer. Watch out, it'll fall on you if you're not careful.

Once its free you just have to pull it out of the tailshaft and it comes free.



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I dont know if it matters but I marked the shaft and connections so I could put it right back where it came from in the same position. I'll clean it up and paint it with bedliner too.

The only things left are a few bolts at the front of the transmission. These crossmember bolts and maybe some on the flywheel.



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I don't want to take a bolt off and have 40 springs pop out everywhere so I asked on the transmission forum what to do next.

FetchMeAPepsi September 5th, 2013 06:13 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
The next six bolts have been keeping me up at night. I worry that it'll fall out on me and crush me like a grape, lol.

I sneaked out there today like a super ninja. A super ninja that wears jorts and a dirty tshirt.



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Yeah I'm smokin off the clock. Lock up the wimmings :lolsmack:
So I sneaked under there while the baby was down for a nap. I only had 2 hours for unbolting, cleaning up, and taking a shower before she woke up so I was in a bit of a rush. I started with putting a vice grip on the 4wd shifter because it kept falling on me.



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Then I put a jack stand under the flywheel. I later found out that this is not a great idea. Instead I should have put a jack under the back of the engine and raised it up just barely 1/8 inch to take pressure off of the motor mounts after the tranny is removed.

Also the flywheel MOVES! Who'da thunk that? If it fell on a jackstand it'd probably just roll off and chase me down the street.



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There was a little tab on the crossmember (big steel platform under the transmission) beside each bolt. I bent it away with a screwdriver. I think its there to keep the bolt from backing out.



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Then I grabbed a 3/4 inch socket and BZZZT! Out they both came. Easy as pie. I moved up to the transmission bolts now. The top ones are facing the rear of the vehicle, the bottom ones are buried behind the bellhousing. Seems intentionally evil to me. Today I took the top bolts out and left the bottom ones in.



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Next thing I'll do is put a jack under the transmission to hold it up and remove those two bottom bolts. Then wheel the whole she-bang out for cleanup and inspection.

FetchMeAPepsi September 5th, 2013 06:33 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Just called NAPA and its a good thing I did. Nothing was in stock. I ordered a Pilot bearing, clutch release bearing, and two new tranny mounts in case mine are cracked when I get them off. If not I'll re-use them and take these back.

Everything will be delivered on Saturday morning. Click the pic to see a larger image if you can't make it out. Total cost = $82.86



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Thanks to Cort60 for the part numbers. The clutch disk I'll have to have redone at a shop. Still not sure how that'll go or what kind of shop does that kinda thing.

GMCDAC September 7th, 2013 05:19 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
That's cool, and I learned more about these trucks from your NAPA order! I never knew the pilot bearing was a ball type, and you must be able to remove the throwout bearing from the sleeve the clutch fork holds on to.

Later---DAC

FetchMeAPepsi September 7th, 2013 05:42 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GMCDAC (Post 50101)
That's cool, and I learned more about these trucks from your NAPA order! I never knew the pilot bearing was a ball type, and you must be able to remove the throwout bearing from the sleeve the clutch fork holds on to.

Later---DAC

I'm picking them up here in a minute when the Powder Puff and the Blonde get back from volleyball practice. They just came in from Dallas (parts, not the girls lol). I hope they work OK. I got the numbers from someone that had just rebuilt their sm318 transmission so they should be good to go. If not we'll all learn something new :headscratch: The part numbers for anyone without picture access are:
  • Transmission Mount (have to shave off the bottom left corner) BK6021034 = $13.38
  • Clutch Release (Throwout) Bearing BRG N1181 = $33.99
  • Clutch Pilot Bearing BRG BR7109 = $35.49
All NAPA part numbers. For the throwout bearing you'll need to save your old collar and press in this bearing. Not sure how that's going to work yet. Hammer? Grease and a thumb? I dunno. Then again I didn't know what the throwout bearing even was until this all happened. :crazy:

Foley September 7th, 2013 09:25 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Refacing a clutch disk can usually be done by a local shop that does brake relining. Check with a auto machine shop if you have one there in town. If they do brake work, linings and disks that is, they probably can talk clutches. Disk refacing and getting the pressure plate resurfaced (if needed) is worth doing while you have that transmission out and are playing with throwout bearings etc. I don't know what a GMC clutch disk is made out of. If they are those fiber things, you might be able to locate a new one thru a parts vendor. Since I'm working my way in that direction with ol' Dudley64 I'll be interested in what you come up with. Foley

FetchMeAPepsi September 8th, 2013 02:46 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Foley (Post 50115)
Refacing a clutch disk can usually be done by a local shop that does brake relining. Check with a auto machine shop if you have one there in town. If they do brake work, linings and disks that is, they probably can talk clutches. Disk refacing and getting the pressure plate resurfaced (if needed) is worth doing while you have that transmission out and are playing with throwout bearings etc. I don't know what a GMC clutch disk is made out of. If they are those fiber things, you might be able to locate a new one thru a parts vendor. Since I'm working my way in that direction with ol' Dudley64 I'll be interested in what you come up with. Foley

We do have one locally so I hope they're not too high. No one sells GMC 305V6 clutches anymore so we all have to get them redone. Mine looks kinda thin IMHO, but I don't know what they look like new. :teehee:

FetchMeAPepsi September 8th, 2013 04:51 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Today was the big removal. I ran down to NAPA and spoke to the same...humanoid.... that I ordered the parts from. He made it all the way to Assistant Manager so by golly he's got to have something rolling around in his noggin right? :noway:

After telling me on the phone that the order was in he turned right around and told me he'd have to check on it because it wasn't showing up as delivered. Powder puff and I waited over an hour for him to get his crap together and stop playing Solitaire on the computer only to have him say, "I' sorry but tha c'putah dont tell us when tha' order aint in. It jus' didn't go in I guess. I put it in right away an' it gonna be here on Toosdee. I'll have it here waitin on ya."

Yeah right. So I shot him and made him into a seat cover. :ahhhh:







In my head anyway. Instead I said, "Well if that's what we have to do we'll be back Tuesday. See you then." Then I expounded on his questionable ancestry once I got back in the car.

So with that over and my head all hot I headed back to get started pulling bolts again. That tranny gunk is a bear to get off. I'm thinking it's worse than the spray-bed liner I'm putting on everything. I use that GoJo orange hand cleaner and it barely gets it off with alot of scrubbing. If you guys have anything better let me know what it is.

We started by procrastinating again. Powder Puff wanted to put the emblems back on that The Redhead hand painted for us. I want to see how the paint lasts in the weather this winter anyway so I agreed. I got them started then she took over.



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After horsing around a little I got back under there. I put a 3/8 inch wrench on the two bottom bolts that are inside the bellhousing. They're facing opposite the top two bolts. The position was awkward so I used a hammer to get them started unscrewing.



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With the last bolt almost out I put a jack under the transmission, centered under the drain hole (plug still out). They make special jacks for this but I didn't have any trouble with a regular one.



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The jack has wheels so it was easy to scoot the tranny and jack backward together to get it unplugged from the bellhousing and engine.



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Once it's pulled free just have a helper run the jack down to floor level while you hold it steady on the jack. down and out it goes. Ready for cleanup.



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FetchMeAPepsi September 8th, 2013 05:37 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
The tranny was out of the way so I could reach in and grab the throwout bearing with my fingers.



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The clutch fingers(?), those three things behind the fork poking toward the center hole, had wear scuffs on them and they were shiny. I wonder if they're supposed to be that way or if that could be my noise?



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I spent the next several hours taking off the transmission hump cover and four bolts from the bellhousing, then the hydraulic clutch bits, then the bottom starter bolt but nothing would let the bellhousing come down. Frustrated, I just started spinning the flywheel and taking these bolts off on it.



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I had to stick a screwdriver in these little circular holes in the other side to hold it still while I turned it. You can see the screwdriver at the top of the picture.



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To my surprise the entire thing dropped out on my hand when I pulled out the last bolt. It hurt like HECK too! I guess it weighs 15-20 lbs. Good thing my hand was the only thing under there. It would have busted my phone wide open. Here's the empty socket it fell out of



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And the clutch disk



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Its thickness



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And the bottom thing's thickness



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And that was it today because i dont know what's next. Id like to figure out the bell housing issue but if not I can clean it up and paint it when I get a cherrypicker and pull the engine for painting later. Not the end of the world.

I also need to figure out if my clutch is worn enough to get redone and if the bearings are bad. The throwout bearing spins nicely but it might have other issues. I just dont know what Im looking for yet. :headscratch:

BarryGMC September 8th, 2013 05:20 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
The thing is toast. Pull the flywheel and have it resurfaced. 2 options on the clutch. put in a 12 inch clutch out of a 1-1-2 ton truck with a v6. Thats what I do on both gmc and chevy. I will put some pics of these on later after I go to the shop. Second take your clutch to the napa store and have the counter help compare your clutch to a chevy, buick ,pontiac. 11 inch clutch. Tell the guy you want to see a clutch for a 76 chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. He should have that. Compare the disks. they will interchange. There may be some visual differences depending on who made it, but that wont mater. Now the pressure plate is where you have to get creative. First the distance from the face of the flywheel on the gmc v6 to the mounting surface of the trans is aprox 5.75 inches. on a chevy with a truck flywheel it is aprox 4.75 inches. Now you see a range of measurements in the B,O,P. also, so there is a range of thicknesses of the whole pressure plate assembly, with gmc being the thickest. These differences are dealt with in a few ways. Ball stud height, and throwout bearing changes in conjunction with pressure plate thickness, and release finger design. The reality is you can see thicker pressure plates in the narrower dimension and thinner pressure plates in the wider dimension. Nothing has to be custom here. Especially the disk. Now finally in regard to the pressure plate. If the plate is not deeply scored you can resurface this also. However you need the services of a nice machinist. Barry

tommyduncan September 8th, 2013 06:40 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryGMC (Post 50144)
The thing is toast. Pull the flywheel and have it resurfaced. 2 options on the clutch. put in a 12 inch clutch out of a 1-1-2 ton truck with a v6. Thats what I do on both gmc and chevy. I will put some pics of these on later after I go to the shop. Second take your clutch to the napa store and have the counter help compare your clutch to a chevy, buick ,pontiac. 11 inch clutch. Tell the guy you want to see a clutch for a 76 chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. He should have that. Compare the disks. they will interchange. There may be some visual differences depending on who made it, but that wont mater. Now the pressure plate is where you have to get creative. First the distance from the face of the flywheel on the gmc v6 to the mounting surface of the trans is aprox 5.75 inches. on a chevy with a truck flywheel it is aprox 4.75 inches. Now you see a range of measurements in the B,O,P. also, so there is a range of thicknesses of the whole pressure plate assembly, with gmc being the thickest. These differences are dealt with in a few ways. Ball stud height, and throwout bearing changes in conjunction with pressure plate thickness, and release finger design. The reality is you can see thicker pressure plates in the narrower dimension and thinner pressure plates in the wider dimension. Nothing has to be custom here. Especially the disk. Now finally in regard to the pressure plate. If the plate is not deeply scored you can resurface this also. However you need the services of a nice machinist. Barry

Now that's the kind of info I like to see! Another V6 guy used a diaphragm set up for a Chevy and an old timer told me the same thing. Since I have never personally done this I wasn't going to chime in.
However... I am going to the parts store in a few and I was gonna drag the clutch from my parts motor with me to compare it to what's available. I am running a Hydramatic but I have been curious about this.
I guess the leg work has already been done!
I put the large clutch in my 61 Chevy wagon with a 3 on the tree. The older fellow behind the counter assured me it would work and it did.

Pep I have a bell housing sitting by itself. If some pics would help you to figure out if you missed a bolt lemme know. I also have two flywheels if yours is too far gone. These might be toast also, never really checked them out

I removed the clutch/flywheel the same way you did, with the bell housing still on. I had the engine still attached to the hoist but sitting on a tire on the ground. When I got all the bolts out of the flywheel I thought I had the full weight of it in my hand, but it was actually hung up on the tire. When I pulled it away from the engine it slipped off of the tire and pinned my hand against the ground. Blood spurted like a horror movie!:superhug:
My hands were black as night from all the grime(I'm not using these parts so no hurry to scrub them) and the blood was quite a contrast. It split the lowest section of my pinky wide open and left teeth marks across the callous part of the next two fingers.
I thought it was gonna be a trip to the ER but by the time I got it cleaned up it wasn't bleeding, just oozing clear fluid. I taped it real good and ignored it. Even a week later my coworker was telling me I should see a doctor but it is fine now.

jbgroby September 9th, 2013 02:26 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Fetch,

Here is something you don't see everyday. Don't worry about marking the flywheel position, AS GMC offset 2 of the holes, The flywheel can ONLY be put back in a correct position - Neat huh?

FetchMeAPepsi September 9th, 2013 11:42 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryGMC (Post 50144)
The thing is toast. Pull the flywheel and have it resurfaced. 2 options on the clutch. put in a 12 inch clutch out of a 1-1-2 ton truck with a v6. Thats what I do on both gmc and chevy. I will put some pics of these on later after I go to the shop. Second take your clutch to the napa store and have the counter help compare your clutch to a chevy, buick ,pontiac. 11 inch clutch. Tell the guy you want to see a clutch for a 76 chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. He should have that. Compare the disks. they will interchange. There may be some visual differences depending on who made it, but that wont mater. Now the pressure plate is where you have to get creative. First the distance from the face of the flywheel on the gmc v6 to the mounting surface of the trans is aprox 5.75 inches. on a chevy with a truck flywheel it is aprox 4.75 inches.

This is brand spanking new info for me. I've read 1000 times that no one makes these clutches anymore. So much that I took it as gospel. That you found a compatible one thats still made is AMAZING! :superhappy:

I'll be ordering the New Generation 04-528 Premium Clutch Kit you recommended from Amazon this week. Man I was all ready to have to press in new bearings and have some place charge me an arm and leg to rebuild my clutch disk. You saved me about $100 bucks easy! Thank you!



Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryGMC (Post 50144)
Now you see a range of measurements in the B,O,P. also, so there is a range of thicknesses of the whole pressure plate assembly, with gmc being the thickest. These differences are dealt with in a few ways. Ball stud height, and throwout bearing changes in conjunction with pressure plate thickness, and release finger design. The reality is you can see thicker pressure plates in the narrower dimension and thinner pressure plates in the wider dimension. Nothing has to be custom here. Especially the disk. Now finally in regard to the pressure plate. If the plate is not deeply scored you can resurface this also. However you need the services of a nice machinist. Barry

Ok now i just feel stupid. I dont know what any of that means :headscratch:


Quote:

Originally Posted by tommyduncan (Post 50146)
Pep I have a bell housing sitting by itself. If some pics would help you to figure out if you missed a bolt lemme know. I also have two flywheels if yours is too far gone. These might be toast also, never really checked them out.

My flywheel looks pretty good. I think it'll be OK, but thanks! If it's not too much trouble I would like to see a few pics of the bellhousing though. I know it doesn't have to come out anymore but I'd like to clean it up and paint it since I already have six of the bolts out of it and the hydraulics and starter off. If it's too much trouble just let me know. No hard feelins! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommyduncan (Post 50146)
I removed the clutch/flywheel the same way you did, with the bell housing still on. I had the engine still attached to the hoist but sitting on a tire on the ground. When I got all the bolts out of the flywheel I thought I had the full weight of it in my hand, but it was actually hung up on the tire. When I pulled it away from the engine it slipped off of the tire and pinned my hand against the ground. Blood spurted like a horror movie!:superhug:
My hands were black as night from all the grime(I'm not using these parts so no hurry to scrub them) and the blood was quite a contrast. It split the lowest section of my pinky wide open and left teeth marks across the callous part of the next two fingers.
I thought it was gonna be a trip to the ER but by the time I got it cleaned up it wasn't bleeding, just oozing clear fluid. I taped it real good and ignored it. Even a week later my coworker was telling me I should see a doctor but it is fine now.

:ahhhh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbgroby (Post 50157)
Fetch,

Here is something you don't see everyday. Don't worry about marking the flywheel position, AS GMC offset 2 of the holes, The flywheel can ONLY be put back in a correct position - Neat huh?

GROBY! I haven't see you around in a while! I did mark the bottom bolt (see the tape in the pic!) but I'm glad they made it so even I cant mess it up. Every time I learn something new about this truck I love it that much more. :yeeuh::yeeuh:

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:yeeuh::yeeuh:


Thanks everyone for the help. You guys have your own things going on with your own lives and families and I really appreciate you taking the time to share a little knowledge with someone who easily gets in over his head. :yourock:

BarryGMC September 10th, 2013 01:39 AM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
You need to pull the flywheel and have it resurfaced. No ifs and's or buts. Your napa store may even be able to do it. Guys I swap transmissions like most people swap in one wire gm alternators. Its my dislike for 3 speeds and crappy aluminum 5 speeds. The 2 most common setups in jeeps. 420's are my fav with nv4500 and t-19's next. I make most of my own adapters, drivelines, and shorten and respline input/ output shafts. If it is a 1-1/8 10 spline I will figure out a clutch. I have a great friend who is a parts guy. I grew up with his little bro. He lets me play with this that and the other when I need to sort stuff out. Finally My 90 year old granpa is a machinist. His dad was a machinist. And I can spend the day playing with 3 different lathes a couple of mills, a planer,2 crank grinders, head mill, valve grinders,boring bars etc,etc. I tell him he is like Noah he seems to have 2 of everything. He also has far more old rigs than I do. He taught me to be real crafty and frugal in my old ride hobby. He also made me learn the hard way. All of the work I did at his shop in my early years was done outside in the heat,rain,cold,snow. Because he said his shop was for men to work. I spent many days right outside his door with him and his friends watching and waiting for me to quit. So if there is anything I want people to learn its to be resourceful, and persistent. These are machines. They share a huge commonality with other machines. Keep this in mind and you will find this all really easy. Barry

FetchMeAPepsi September 10th, 2013 06:53 PM

Re: 1962 GMC 305V6 4WD Slow DD Build - Cecilia (Pic Heavy)
 
I can have the flywheel resurfaced. I'll take it off this weekend. The weather's supposed to be great so I'm hoping to get all the cleanup etc. stuff done then put it all back together next weekend (21st). That just leaves me the 28th to get the step put back on so I can take the required b'day pics with the lil' blonde. Ugh time is going by too fast! Winter will be here soon then everything comes to a halt while we shiver and freeze.


Yesterday while that same lil' blonde was down for her nap I sneaked out to the garage and needle-scaled (thanks Vernski! :lolflag:) the transmission down to a more respectable dust color.

I tried a putty knife on the stuff stuck to her but...well you can see.



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The bottom was real nasty. I put the plug back in (not in pic) to flip it over so dirt didnt get in there.



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I was left with this mess on my nice clean plyboards



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Then today I dunked her in a big tupperware bin that I call my parts washer. I poured my trusty gallon of carb cleaner all over her and me and some paper towels went to scrubbin. I was going to jump in the shower before I did this but changed my mind (I can't stop thinkin about my truck lately. Obsessive much?!) and ran outside to do this one thing real quick. I don't have pics because...um...I was afraid of reflective surfaces and you guys probably just ate.



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Afterward I finished my shower, put on gloves and rinsed the tranny off with the hose. I dried it with paper towels and sat it in the sun. It'll still need wire-wheeling but overall it's much better looking. I'm gonna paint it too :wub2: but I need to find some of that orangey paint. I thought the transmissions were black but it still has some orange on it from the factory. I order Duplicolor 1605 Ford Red engine enamel which supposedly most closely matches the color.



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For giggles I checked the seal prices on Muncie 318s and on Ebay they run about $100 for all the seals and bearings. That's probably in my future eventually, but not today!





If you're keeping track, to date I've spent about $1548.08 on Cecilia including purchase price and parts. I don't include tools because I'll use them forever, but several of them were freebies from garage sale leftovers, friends, relatives, and Freecycle. (Man I love Freecycle!)
My total budget is $4800. When I reach that mark if she'd not done enough I'll have to start selling spare bits to close the gap. If things get too tight I might have to paint her with crayons :lolsmack:







:boggled::boggled: Train of Thought Alert!! My $4800 number came from being close to what I could resell her for if times got real hard and I had already sold most of my limbs and kidneys. It's 10% of the national average income plus $500 for shipping. Makes sense, right? :boggled::boggled:


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