HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I have read most of the past postings from this site and notice that discussions on pointless ignition systems brings some criticisms of the Pertronic point replacement system.

I have a low mileage Delco point distributor in my 401 V6 and I would like to upgrade to pointless ignition. Seems a given that the GM HEI is better, but is it that much better? Like a 12" thick concrete driveway is better than a 4" thick drive, but the 4" drive should be long-lasting, too.

Anyone who has had experience with both care to comment?
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I have a 1960 belair, put pertronix in it 3 years ago. Runs great, no problems. I have installed pertronix in 2 customer cars, at my shop. Have had no problems with either. Pertronix is very simple, not much to go wrong.
I have an hei for my 66 gmc, have not installed it yet. Debated on the pertronix, but i needed wires, and distributor cap and rotor as well, so i opted for the hei.

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Nothing wrong with pertronix other than the fact they are known for just Dying after around 5 years. I've had mine in my truck for several years and no issues or complaints here. Being that the current bolt in HEI is $325 I was able to save quite a bit of money going with a rebuilt dizzy and pertronix unit for the same results!

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Thanks for the real world experience. Perhaps it may be prudent to keep a spare Pertronic unit for on the road replacement should the 1st one fail.
-Andy Carlson Ojai CA

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I just keep a spare set of points on the plate and a ground wire for mine. :thumbsup:

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I'll be the first to tell you about the HEI conversion, I built it back in 1991 and was immediately happy with the results. The HEI is a much hotter ignition than the Pertronix, after the 478M conversion I built it up with the MSD coil and digital module with a built in rev limiter that includes a second Tach lead which will come in real handy when I decide to go with Howell Fuel Injection. As far as reliability I just keep a spare module in the glovebox that's easier to change than a set of points.:upyes:

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I have raced at drag strips for decades, and I have learned over the years that many stock distributors have too much mechanical advance built in. In a 6000 RPM big block, it is commonly understood to have all of your advance in at 3000RPM. Timing with many stock distributors, when total timing is set up this way, will have retarded timing at low RPMS, Off-idle and slow cruise. The solution for years was to limit the total advance by brazing portions of the advance centrifugal weight slots to limit the total advance. Now, many of the aftermarket distributors come with "Performance curves" included.

My question- does having full timing come in so close to the red line leave a lot of mid-range power on the table? I would like to check the BB V6 advance curve someday on my 401 with a dial-to-zero timing light and see what the factory curves are. I suspect that they are quicker than the more traditional engines (V8s).
Thanks, -Andy Carlson Ojai CA

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

One thing I agree with is that Pertronix is "pointless".

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Pete is that the buick v6 dizzy?

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Yes it's a Buick V6 HEI.

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Greetings BigBlock!

While the GM HEI does produce a hotter spark and all of that, it is not without its drawbacks. I owned two Buicks, both equipped with the HEI, and never had the ignition module itself go bad. The part that went bad on both of my HEI's was the pick-up coil that was mounted on the "breaker plate" and had two little wires that were notorious for having one of those wires breaking, and there was no simple "roadside fix" since the entire distributor had to be removed and disassembled to replace the pick-up coil. Personally, I'd go with the "small" distributor (if you can find one) used on later Big Block V-6's and the Pertronix conversion. The Pertronix unit is much simpler and much easier to change than any of the parts in the GM HEI. I've used the Pertronix in agricultural applications, and I am very pleased with them and their simplicity of design.

But then, that's just my two cents worth here. Both the GM HEI and Pertronix have their advantages and disadvantages. It all boils down to a matter of personal choice.

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Yes I know about those two wires on the pickup coil, though I've never had them break under normal conditions. The only time I had the wires break on me is when I was gutting out a Pontiac HEI for parts.

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I used to work on a lot of late 70's- up GMC 6500's with 366's and 427's in them, all HEI. Very little ignition problems, but when they did happen it was most often carbon tracking on the cap and rotor. Wouldn't leave you stranded but would miss and backfire a lot.

No question HEI delivers a hotter spark than Pertronix, even if you use their 'Flamethrower' coil. I went with Pertronix for the stock appearance and I was concerned of clearance issues with the stock air cleaner. Never measured, will HEI work with the stock air cleaner?

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Greetings again!

Long story short, both of my Buicks were 1978 Electra Limited cars, and from what I was told at my local parts store was that the wires on the OEM pick-up coils were not heavy enough to stand up to the flexing they received whenever the vacuum advance moved the "breaker plate" that the pick-up coil was mounted to. The replacement pick-up coils had visibly heavier wires than the OEM coils. After replacing the coils with after market parts, I had no more problems involving the pick-up coils. The only other problem that I had with the GM HEI was that I had one ignition coil go bad. Other than that, the GM HEI was a fairly reliable ignition system.

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

To anyone is interested in the HEI conversion;
** I still supply the Custom Spacer/Sleeve for the even fire Buick V6 distributor HEI conversion, a shown in the Ed Erlbacher drawings on the 6066 GMC web site.* Over 100 of these Spacer/Sleeves have been machined, and most have been sold to members of this 6066 GMC fraternity over the last 20 years or so.
** The Custom Spacer/Sleeve comes as a kit; which includes the Spacer/Sleeve and some small parts which are sometimes difficult to source in small quantities.
The small parts are: new O-ring for the distributor body, new roll pin for the drive gear after it is drilled, and a couple of thin shims for the distributor shaft to take out any excess end play, if needed, after the drive gear is installed.

* The Custom Spacer/Sleeve kit is $55 including shipping via USPS.

Rod Johnson
Issaquah, WA.
WE7X@aol.com

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

No question HEI delivers a hotter spark than Pertronix, even if you use their 'Flamethrower' coil. I went with Pertronix for the stock appearance and I was concerned of clearance issues with the stock air cleaner. Never measured, will HEI work with the stock air cleaner?[/QUOTE]

Bob, When I get home this weekend I'll take some measurements on my 68 with HEI. I also have a 67 351E air cleaner to make the comparison. You are running the Holley 500 carb, right?

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Sounds like the replacement pick-up coil will make a good upgrade for my HEI:upyes:

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

Bob, When I get home this weekend I'll take some measurements on my 68 with HEI. I also have a 67 351E air cleaner to make the comparison. You are running the Holley 500 carb, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes, Holley 500. Found an aftermarket air cleaner base that fits with the stock 351/WWC air cleaner lid, so I run that for a stock appearance. Thanks, I might go with an HEI one of these days.

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

im interested in buying the sleeve from you, but i want to know what year of buick dist to purchase along with wires, thanks

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

That distributor information is on the web site, in the section on upgrades IIRC ( speciically ignition), along with the drawings. Compatible distributors were used in most of the GM V6 powered vehicles in those years, so you might find one with a p/n that is listed for a Pontiac or a Chevy. The one I built came out of a wrecking yard Pontiac.
I only supply the custom sleeve/bushing and a few small parts, as stated in the posting.
Rod Johnson
(425) 392-8497

Re: HEI vs Pertronic pointless ignition systems
 

I have ran Pertronix and HEI back to back in my Ford. HEI for the win...