Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

That wood is going to look great! Do you plan to coat it or anything or just leave it natural? A quick look online says it's naturally resistant to just about everything. It's a wonder that it ever rots in the forest, haha!

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Thanks. Yes, I'll stain it with oil. If left natural, the wood turns to a light gray over time. Because it is so durable and hard it would definitely make sense to use it as a bed wood. Of course it will be protected when hauling stuff like engine blocks etc haha

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

So... in the last few weeks, I finished the truck for inspection. The inspection was on Monday the 3rd, passed the first try. Right now I'm working on the license plates and the last insurance-related things. So hopefully by the end of the week, possibly next week I have the GMC on the road!

From then on I'll start to focus on the aesthetic side, for example, the bed floor and the V6 badges, and rust repairs. But propane conversion will be first and a gearbox swap.

The current SM420 is pretty clapped out. It whines to high heaven and the 2nd gear synchro is shot. Saturday I hope to pick up another 420 as a temporary gearbox while I rebuild the 'numbers matching' 420. The 420 I hope to pick up sat behind a plaid valve cover '63 305! Hoping to take a glance at those plaid valve covers too!

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Brought the SM420 home. This shifting pattern is much tighter, you get the impression that you're actually shifting instead of stirring in the soup... :upyes:

Took the shifter out and removed the top cover and inspection (PTO) cover. Drained the old fluid and cleaned the magnet on the bottom. All looks good, a much better tranny than the current one. Synchro's all look to be in good shape.

Hope to install this tranny soon. Should take care of the shifting issues. I think I'll keep this tranny installed. Rebuilding the other one might improve the synchros, but will cost a lot to rebuild and the shift forks are still worn, resulting in the sloppy shifting.

The guy I visited had a '63 305D. Those plaid covers are something else, arent they?

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Installed the "new" SM420 today. Before installing I cleaned her up and painted her black. Also replaced the rear (yoke) oil seal, as the spring wore through the rubber.

When I pulled the shifter from the old tranny, it turned out that it had the later SM465 shifter! I know these interchange but the 465 is a 2 piece shift fork design to keep the vibrations to a minimum. Turns out the roll pin that secures the fork to the shifter was so loose it created the sloppy shifting.

Anyway, when removing the old tranny the bellhousing and yoke bolts were snug but not tight... :ahhhh:
When turning the transmission by hand you can hear the noisy ball bearings.

Anyway, out with the old and in with the new. I used the yoke and speedometer connection from the old tranny as the one on the 'new' tranny were for 4.56 or even lower. Also reused the old 'donut'. See photos. Cleaned the throwout bearing and greased her up, when through the whole clutch mechanism to properly clean and grease the moving points.

The new tranny shifts a whole lot better! The 2nd gear synchro works like it should and the tranny is tight.

However, when shifting from 3rd to 4th and the RPMs drop to 800 or so and you accelerate there is a strange noise... Above a certain rpm (about 1400 I guess) it is gone, no matter the load applied to the transmission.. the old tranny had the same thing, so it probably is not the tranny but I'm not sure what it is. It sounds like it comes from the tranny, not the rear axle or something like that. I'll try to record a video capturing the noise.

Have been cruising with the GMC some lately. According to my calculations, I'm getting 13.4 MPG. Was expecting worse so not bad. Been gathering parts for the propane conversion as that will be next, together with the IPE bedwood.

Would like to upgrade the exhaust though, at least switch the muffler. Right now it has the factory muffler which is quiet, a little too quiet. Hoping to find a muffler that is a little louder but lets you hear the V6 rumbling. Right now I can barely hear the engine in the cab. I still have the factory single exhaust and muffler. Any suggestions please let me know :thumbsup:

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Did a compression test today. All cylinders 125 psi! Took so long as I had to make an adapter because of the threads being so deep in these heads.

Did some fooling around with mufflers, had a turbo muffler on, an old Daytona made piece. I did not run a tailpipe, just the original muffler removed with couple the new one with an adapter. Liked the 'loudness' first but that goes away fast and the cab drone is annoying. Turns to obnoxious real fast IMO.

Will switch back to the OEM quiet muffler for now. Mine is still original and does a great job at keeping the noise low. A little more rumble would be welcome but that is it.

Planning to upgrade to 2.25 inch (true) duals. Looking at some mufflers now. Think I'll go with the Walker 17911 quiet flows. Should be quiet but still an upgrade over the factory single exhaust.

Changed the coolant.

Also working on the IPE bedwood. Propane conversion coming up soon..
Got most of the parts for the conversion gathered. Will keep you posted with pics when I get it installed.

Future plans:
HEI ignition from the Buick 231 V6
Toolbox in the bed for tools and general stuff. This also houses the propane tank.
Easy to use bed tie-down system to carry stuff around in the bed.
Improved PCV system that does away with the built-in cylinder head PCVs.
Headlight high beam and low beam via relays.
Rust repairs
Paint (503 light green with the white bumpers etc.)
Cosmetic upgrades
Replacing worn out and cracked parts like the front and vent window rubbers.
New towing bumper from my own design, copying the original but lighter, better made in regards to rust prevention etc.
Trailer hitch and wiring to complement it.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Not much to add other than some small electrical issues solved. Still working on preparation for the bed wood and propane conversion. Pretty busy, not much time at the moment.

However, I did find out that my 305E has valve rotators, on both intake and exhaust valves! According to my 65 manual, these are optional on 305E's. Definitely a nice option to have!

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

A month later! Had to do a lot of work on my other car ('89 Golf MK2 1.6 diesel, slow but very good mileage, around 50 MPG)

Almost finished the dual exhaust, decided it was time for a fun project. Got 'er done but still lacking the end pipes (behind rear tire). Will need some extra 90-degree bends for these. Picture will follow when that is finished.

A couple of small exhaust leaks will have to be addressed.

I used the Walker 18230 mufflers, with is a replacement muffler for Chargers and probably other B bodies with 426 Hemi and 440 engines I believe. Used 2.25" aluminized pipes. Nice and quiet but with a good rumble, meaning you can hear the engine well, especially when you step on it. Exactly what I wanted.

Also repaired the heat riser as it did not move freely. Got it to move freely. By testing on the bench with a heat gun it worked like a charm. Turns out it never opens when driving, probably from the wind cooling the heat riser. The bi-metal spring is 'worn out', opening at a temperature that is too high.

So I will probably delete it but will tie it open for now. Hate heaving to hear the engine running on 3 cylinders with those duals :(

Question: any forum members still have the heat riser on your 305 or did you delete it?

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

I wired it open once I got it open.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

No troubles with cold start/cold engine hesitation etc?

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Not really. With the choke it run just fine.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Here's a video of the dual exhaust rumble:



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Edit: regarding the 'knock' you hear, I believe it is piston slap, it goes away quickly when the engine warms up some. Also wired the heat riser open, however will try to tighten up the bimetal spring to get it to work properly. Otherwise it will be deleted.

Finally took apart and cleaned up the rocker arms. They had a layer of sludge in them. Luckily all the parts were in good shape, seems they got lubrication from somewhere. All the oil passages are clear now.

A top tip for someone running one of these for the first time is to clean these out first!

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

[QUOTE=Prowbar;75675]Here's a video of the dual exhaust rumble:



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Your truck reminds me a lot of one I used to have -- another black 3/4 ton. It had a 351 in it.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

[QUOTE=Ed Snyder;75676]Yours is indeed very similar! Wish mine had the 351 though. The shifter in your truck had some odd bends to it?

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

[QUOTE=Prowbar;75678]I don't recall any odd bends in the shifter. I owned that truck about 20 years ago.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

[QUOTE=Ed Snyder;75685]The picture had me fooled, never mind.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Here's a picture of the IPE bed mock-up. Finally started working on it, so far I'm 2 days in. A real learning experience, to be honest, I'm glad when the bed floor is done. Some of the square holes in the new bed strips are not located where they should be, meaning I will have to oblong the holes in the cross sills to get everything to fit... the glory of repro parts.

Luckily I can use the car lift, which saves me from having to crawl underneath every time to fasten the bolts.

I've treated the IPE board with 2 coats of hardwood oil, and more coats on the ends. The bed strip grooves were cut in the boards, and I added water gutters every 10 inches so the water can run out of the grooves. See picture.

The oil really makes the wood come alive, as you can see in the last picture. As you may have noticed I had to make the 7 7/16" and 6 3/8" boards out of 2 pieces, which and glued together with tongue and groove. I tried to match them as good as I could, and I really like the sheer difference there is in the wood texture and colors. Makes it come alive to me.

Hopefully, I can finish the bed floor next week. Then I'm going to start on the propane conversion.

If you want to create a bed floor that is long-lasting, and something that is different than plain oak, I would definitely recommend IPE. One thing though, if you're working with the wood, I recommend working outside or inside with proper ventilation. There's this yellow dust in the wood, it is nasty stuff.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

The bed wood is finished!
Having built the bed on the back of the truck, it made getting to some fasteners a little more difficult. For example the fasteners underneath the 3rd (wide) crossmember are blocked off by a chassis crossmember. To remedy this, I lifted up the bed using axle stands. This worked out fine and allowed me to fasten the bolts.

I'm glad that it is finished, and definitely worth the results.

Now onto the propane conversion..

But first I'll have to replace a leaking axle seal in the Dana 60. I reused the original seals, and one started leaking, unfortunately.

Also, the engine consumes some oil. Unfortunately, it started to get worse yesterday. Constant blue haze at idle from one cylinder bank... I believe it comes from the cylinder heads. That guy that I bought the transmission from has a good set of 305 heads. I hope to install these for the time being, and in the meanwhile, I can rebuild my own cylinder heads.

Bronze valve guides, hardened seats, positive valve seals, and some decking to increase the compression ratio is the plan, possibly with some light porting work to clean up the casting.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

If the original seals was made of leather, as oppose to neoprene, and hard they can be softened up using saddle soap. If there a groove in the spindle it can be filled with Devcon Titanium epoxy and sanded smooth. This is what I had done to mine.

Here is a couple of location and not the only ones.

Saddle Soap:

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Epoxy:

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Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Thanks for the reply James. The seals that were installed on mine were made of rubber, with a steel housing. There used to be a pretty severe groove on both spindles, but I repaired those with SKF Speedi Sleeves, as described in a previous post.

By the way, here is something for people that are wanting to build up a bed:
The 1/4'' bolts are secured in the cross sills with a washer, then a lock washer and a nut. When working from underneath it is a severe pain to fumble around with the two washers are also having to install a nut while keeping the bolt from coming out of the hole.

I made an adapter for the 7/16" socket that holds the lock washer and washer in place. Makes installing these much easier! See pictures.

Also, to keep the bolts from coming out of the bed strips when installing the nuts I used two cutoff pieces from the board to support the strip on one side. I can then reach around and support the bolt from underneath. See picture.
Of course this does not work for the last board, so you need a helper for the last one.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

I've created a picture album with some pictures of the truck when I bought it, and with some milestones regarding the progress.

Had a leaking axle seal. Turns out the seal lip was worn to a point where it barely had any pretension. The Speedi Sleeve looked very good. I did not feel like ordering a seal from Rockauto, so made an adapter to use a standard 2.375" oil seal (edit: wrong size given at first). This has a light press fit into the hub and it is secured with Blue Loctite.
See pictures.

To clean up the oily mess I'll boil the brake shoes to remove all the oil from the linings.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Do you have the part number for that oil ring?
I'd like to see the before and after on those brake shoes too.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

The ring that houses the oil seal is one that I made myself on a lathe. I used a standard oil seal, 2 3/8" x 3 1/8" x 3/8"

Here is the one I ordered:

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I took some pictures, the one before got a bit blurry. Before boiling I removed most grease and grime from the shoes.

The after shows the linings after they were boiled in a mix of water and washing soda. After boiling I cleaned them with some brake cleaner and a rag.

In my opinion, this is a great way to 'rescue' brake shoes, after they have been soaked in brake fluid because of a leaky wheel cylinder or a leaking axle seal.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

My experiences are that many oil pans look like that. I think I sold/traded off all my spare undented ones (and a few with minor dents). The flywheel cover is a nice item to have, although I don't think any of my trucks actually still have theirs. I might have one or two in the barn or garage that I intended to put on a truck ... eventually.

*I say eventually since I have a '63 305 V6 that has the Holley conversion and Electronics, along with the Scotsman plaid covers that has been waiting to go in my '63 for at least 10 years now. Sitting right next to the wife's motorcycle that has been on the motorcycle lift for about the same amount of time (and I have not heard the end of that! Every summer... )

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Back to work! :banghead:

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Good news! Filled 'er up with expensive gasoline (98 octane unleaded), added lead additive, and got 14.7 MPG! Pretty satisfied, and that is just "normal driving" for me.

Bone stock (as far as I know) 305E with the 2 barrel Stromberg and original points ignition. SM420 transmission, 4.10 Dana 60 and 31 inch tires.

Gas prices, converted for 98 unleaded, is 10.10 USD per gallon. Need to get the propane installed!

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

That is my problem. Work.
When I got infected with the GMC bug, I was out on disability.
All the time in the world, no money.
Now that I have found a good job I can do its almost the opposite.
I have money, just no time.
:)

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Sorry to hear.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Work to live - not live to work.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Ok. Now that I got that 478 I have to focus on getting the propane conversion done first - in order to cut my fuel costs by more than half :teehee:

I wanted to wait with the conversion because I wanted to get the bed floor in first, which is installed now.

This tank has a 200L capacity, which is around 52 gallons. However, because of safety reasons ie. expansion of the propane as it heats up in the sun, the tank will be only filled to 80% capacity. That leaves 160L or 42 gallons of propane capacity.

I chose a round tank mounted on the bed. I did this to get some genuine capacity. There are tanks that go in place of the spare tire, but these have a much smaller capacity and are much more expensive. I offset the tank to one side, so I can put stuff on the other side whenever I built a toolbox around it, which is a future plan.

In order to mount the propane tank, it has to be attached with brackets to the frame. As it is one heavy SOB when filled up I made a frame that houses the brackets and bolts to the 2 front frame mounting points for the bed. It is now solid as a rock.

Next, I'm going to connect the filler hose and filler opening - and I have a nice trick up my sleeve to hide the filler opening, which you shall see.

A tank meter is not yet installed on the tank. There is the possibility to have a gauge in the cab, however, I will just meter from the tank itself.

Also connected to the tank will be the liquid propane line that goes to the converter in the front. This line is about the same size as a regular 1/4" brake hard line. Remember, it is fed under a pressure of 8 bar (116 psi) to the converter. Also connected to the tank is a wire that operates the solenoid to enable and cut off the propane supply to the line.

The converter converts the liquid gas to a gaseous state. The converter is kept from freezing by the (hot) coolant from the engine. I will place my converter on the return line of the heater.

From the converter, the gaseous propane is fed to the 300A mixer, which is mounted on top of the carburetor. When driving on propane the gasoline supply is cut off and only the throttle blades of the carburetor are used. This IMPCO mixer allows for driving on propane as well as gasoline.

In order to keep the gasoline system working, I'm switching to an electric fuel pump. I can flip a hidden switch in the cab to switch from gas to propane use or vice versa. I will be using a second choke cable to operate the IMPCO 300A mixer. All this will be explained later.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Another piece of the puzzle is completed regarding the liquid propane conversion.

I added the filler hose and filler attachment which are hidden behind the license plate. It runs to the tank.

From the tank, a copper line is run to supply the converter. It first has to pass through a valve, which combined with the solenoid on the tank, turns on or shuts off the propane supply. The gas supply is controlled by the electric fuel pump and electric gas shut off valve.

I've also almost completed the wiring harness for the pumps and solenoids. The wiring has a relay that is enabled when the engine is turning. This is done via an induction pulse from the coil. With a switch under the dash I can change between gasoline and propane fuel.

I've added a second choke cable to operate the mixer on top of the carburetor to switch between gas and propane. This has to be hooked up.

Top tip: the 60-63 repro choke cable is a deluxe cable with a chrome bezel. Removing the bezel doesn't give you a standard choke cable with the serrations... Unfortunately.

In this conversion, I try not to modify the existing parts. I also use whenever possible, existing holes to mount parts onto. This way these modifications can easily be reversed and it keeps everything original, which I like.

All that is left to do now is to hook up the choke cable, complete the wiring and install the mixer with air cleaner. Then my fuel mileage triples (well the cost of fuel decreases that much :))

Last thing: notice those V6 badges on there!!! Finally had them painted and they pop! Now the whole world can know there is a big block V6 in my truck

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Propane conversion is, except for a few brackets and final touches, finished! I've made a little video that shows the GMC running on both gasoline and propane. Hopefully this will make it clear. Took it for a cruise today, has good power. Next thing to do will be to visit someone that has a good exhaust gas tester, to tweak the mixer settings for the proper mixture and emissions.



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Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

By way of comparison, I thought you might like to see photos of another propane installation. This '63 GMC was owned by the regional natural gas company, and had been converted to propane when it was new. So it never ran on gasoline.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

That is neat! And they kept it as simple as possible. Looks like they removed the WW carb and installed a carb for gaseous fuels on there. Interesting to see the converter and fuel switch on the other side. As you said, only natural gas. Did they keep the fuel tank in? And the fuel pump was removed? Cannot see that in the pictures.

The installation looks clean, and that is my goal also. I have the big oil bath air cleaner from the 478, when I get the 478 in I'll see if I can 'gut' the air cleaner and 'hide' the air filter and mixer in there. Should look a lot nicer.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

I took those photos 21 years ago when I was trying to buy the truck. The owner wouldn't sell, though. The fuel tank was still behind the seat, but there was no filler cap on it. I think the fuel pump port was blanked off.

It was a cool truck -- short wheelbase half ton with a utility box on the back and the rare big back window. Hardly any rust or dents either. Odo showed about 90K miles.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

A couple of things got finished today. First of all, I bought a Buick V6 HEI to use. I used the 478 distributor for the gear, and installed this on the HEI. The 478 distributor is pretty outdated because is has no vacuum advance. But it does have the uniset points, which is a neat system.

I followed Peter Chronis' method by welding up the shaft and turning it, then drilling a new hole. Akin to the original I re-riveted the gear on the shaft.

From a piece of aluminum I made the bushing myself. I made new plug wires from a generic V8 set. I set plug gaps to .045" to start.

I had already reserved a 12 volt wire from the ignition to use for the HEI. The ignition pulse for the propane is retrieved from the tachometer port on the HEI.

Installation is pretty tight but once it is in, it is fine. The first startup it idled immediately, which is awesome. I set initial timing to 12 degrees. My engine seems to like more initial to idle properly. I have ported vacuum advance, maybe that is why.

The second modification is my conversion of the stock PCV system. I don't like tapping into 4 of the 6 ports, so I removed the valves and capped them off with 1/4" NPT plugs. I then converted a push in valve cover breather to use a oil filler cap connection. A random Gates PCV hose I found online fits perfectly and redirects the blowby gases to the IMPCO mixer PCV port.

HEI, propane and the PCV conversion should clean up emissions significantly. Tomorrow I'll have it hooked up the exhaust gas tester and I'll see if I can share the final results.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Using the exhaust gas meter we adjusted the emissions today. Before it was almost 6% CO (carbon monoxide) at idle which is extremely high. However, with propane, you don't really notice the excessive hydrocarbon smell (at least outside). Readjusted the idle and checked the emissions at 2500 rpm which was fine.

We set a goal for about 1% CO at idle, which is still a little rich for propane but makes cold starts easier. With the dual exhaust on the left-right values differ a bit but nothing to worry about. The mixer is really sensitive to changes and when we got close we left it as is.

Overall very happy with the other values such as the unburned HC which are really low for an old engine like this. I think this is due to the HEI + PCV conversion. Out of curiosity, I might revert to the stock PCV and spark plug gap and then recheck. Should have done this when the points were still installed but oh well. I have a feeling the stock PCV system will produce more unburned HC's.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Had the chance to test the GMC on a chassis dyno today.

Did two pulls:
1. Propane. 123.7 net HP (DIN norm) at 3500. 296 Nm (219 ft lbs) at 2380 rpm.
2. Gasoline. 145.5 net HP (DIN norm) at 3990. 312 Nm (230 ft lbs) at 2480 rpm.

This is a good running but worn 305E with 125 psi in all cylinders, a very worn timing chain, a 2.25-inch true dual exhaust, HEI ignition, and the stock Stromberg WW carburetor.
SM420 transmission, 4.10 geared Dana 60 on 235/85R16 tires.

As you can see, the torque curve is fairly flat, with torque peak at 2400-2500 rpm compared to the factory's 1600 rpm. We tested to around 4000 rpm.
It also lacks some torque compared to Jolly's chart.

I am assuming the 305E that is in this truck is a fairly worn engine, abused throughout the years. Combined with the wide ratio SM420 it isn't a fast truck by any stretch of the imagination. I don't mean to race the thing either but I do like some power :)

The power losses with running propane are definitely noticeable and this can be seen in the results.

I intend to gain a lot more power with the 478, and then I'm planning to repeat the chassis dyno test. very curious to see how it will perform.

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Time to pull out the leaky 305 to install the 478. Need to borrow some parts from the 305 first. Also, finish the frame paint in the engine bay and paint the firewall in the 503 light green color. Started today by pulling the SM420, then took it apart to change the front seal (I had changed the rear seal prior) and chamfer the ends of the shift forks to allow for a cushion of oil to be forced in between the fork and shift ring. All looks good and new oil will be added when the trans is installed.

Now onto pulling the old 305, then freshening up the engine bay. Got quite a few jobs to do. Been looking to get started for a long time, quite the feeling when you get there :upyes:

Re: '65 GMC 1500 project. From the Netherlands
 

Ok, pulled out the 305 today. Loosened all the bolts, connectors etc. Everything came out easily. Pulled the engine and the original mounts were pretty stuck to the frame, so the rubber separated from the steel plate. No big deal but a shame nonetheless. I have new mounts though, thanks to Musicman70 from 67-72 Chevy forum (Funky61is that you?) There was a thread from a guy rebuilding a 305 and it was hinted that these motor mounts from Anchor (2337) would work, and 2107 and 2108 for the transmission mounts.

Lifting the engine took more work than expected because the engine hoist couldn't lift the engine high enough, so we had to use a crane on the ceiling to lift the engine higher. In the end, I have the 305 sitting on wood blocks, waiting to donate its parts for its bigger brother.

In the last picture, you can see a possible oil leak that I did not discover before: either from the distributor or from the camshaft galley. There is a freeze plug in the camshaft hole but not the block-off plate as is on my 478.

Now onto cleaning the engine bay, then painting it. Then start transferring parts from the 305 to the 478.