65 K1000 305E Starter 'clunk'

[AZKen]

Time is way up!!!!!!! Hope it's not the "newby syndrome". Join, blast question on several sites and forget when solved.

Fixed or not fixed and what they found. What's important is info for the next guy and to verify we took the right path.

[squighound]

Hey guys,

Sorry for leaving you all hanging. Unfortunately, it's still not resolved.

1. a bad spot on flywheel teeth.
A - I did a quick inspection through the starter hole (turned the flywheel over by hand), but I didn't pop off the inspection cover. That's easy enough to do, so I could double-check that way.

2. You missed something.
A - maybe? I don't know what I don't know.

3. Two bad batteries.
A - Got the battery tested at the local shop - they say it's good.

4. two bad starters.
A - both new starters are brand-new, so the chance of this is low, but I suppose it's possible. I'm not willing to buy a 3rd brand-new starter to find out though.

5. battery cable broken inside the insulation or at clamp and can't see it.
A - possible... I've already added a negative/ground cable direct from the battery to the starter, so I could try replacing the positive cable as well I guess...

6. Clutch sticking. Whatever that means.
A - Are you suggesting the clutch is possibly sticking/grabbing the flywheel? I guess that's possible... there's no neutral safety switch or anything similar, so I don't bother holding the clutch in when I try to start it (I just check to make sure the transmission is in neutral first). I could try holding the clutch in while starting...

7. Piston sticking, rotating component sticking like bearings
A - everything rotates smoothly by hand

8. Oil or water in cylinder
A - changed the oil (looked used, but otherwise normal); compression-tested all cylinders a couple months ago, but I could do it again. I don't remember the numbers, but all 6 cylinders were all the same, which was good.

9. Sticking valve causing compression/back pressure
A - How would I check for this - I assume just pop the valve covers, disconnect the coil (so it doesn't actually start), and then turn it over on the starter? I could see all the valves moving... I suppose I could check compression at the same time.

10. Timing off causing compression/back pressure
A - I have not checked the timing, so I can do that and report back. It's something I've been meaning to do anyway.

11. Those internal compression/check valves in head are stuck
A - I'm not sure what these are...

12. Fan belts too tight. Naw, can't be that.
A - No squeak/squeal/etc from the belt. No power steering, power brakes or A/C, so it's just the one belt (about as simple as it gets). Tension feels ok...


Thanks again for all the help and suggestions, guys. I'm learning as I go on this one, so I appreciate it. At this point, it looks like I have a couple more things I could check when I find some time, but I'm also at the point where I may just leave it as-is until it breaks more or "fixes itself". /shrug.

[AZKen]

Thanks for coming back to report. I'll have to give you credit for all the checking using our guesses. I would say the "clunk" is a "Click". It is the solenoid electromagnet pulling the plunger in and sending the gear into engagement. BUT the electrical contact made by this action is not sufficient for a 450 amp starter load on the electrical system involved. Only works when no load on bench.
Assuming it is in fact the correct starter and you received that starter, and some counter jockey is not giving you a 305 Chevy V8 starter.............

NO MATTER what a local shop or anyone says..........put on another battery from another vehicle!!!!!!!!!!!

If no change:
You need to concentrate 100% on power and ground to the starter.
1. You need to have new large Gauge cables.
2. You need to clean battery post
3. Bare metal on ground connection to motor/starter bolt
4. I see in pics of that starter that is is black all over. I don't know if it is paint or mill scale or cast color. Nevertheless YOU MUST sand to bare metal, the face of the starter that butts to bell housing. YOU MUST sand to bare metal, the face on bell housing. Brake cleaner does nothing.
5. Assuming you did not paint the starter or bell housing. Assuming no gasket, shims or grease on faces.

[AZKen]

Grinder flap or Wire wheel the surfaces of starter and bell housing not wire brush. Post pics of all the positive hookups and negative hook ups. Good, clear, well lit pics. The click seems to show that the ignition switch is doing it's job to energize the solenoid, which is a giant relay. It is the starter power connection/cables/clamps/crimps... somehow breaking down...or the BATTERY!!!!!!!!! The switch to a known battery will give a great clue right away.

[squighound]

Quick update: I took the flywheel inspection plate off and put a camera under there to watch what happens when the starter "clunk" noise is made. Looks like the bendex is hitting the flywheel and not meshing properly every time....


https://youtu.be/kcM4qJzkjvc

[FetchMeAPepsi]

The only time I've seen that happen before was a weak starter. It's not putting out enough spin to get up in the flywheel and catch every time. I'd buy a new one or have it re-wound and see if that works.

[AZKen]

Agree, weak solenoid or weak associated solenoid connections breaking down. You can just replace the solenoid if all connections good.

According to the internet it's this

[squighound]

It's a brand-new starter (not rebuilt), and I bought a second brand-new one (same make/model) which does the exact same thing. I've tested all the connections (connectivity test on all wires from starter switch to the starter). Replaced the switch as well for good measure. Also tested with a remote switch hooked up directly to the starter and same issue.

Is it possible that the chamfering/bevel on the bendex isn't enough, and that's why the bendex is hitting the flywheel sometimes instead of meshing like it should?

Thanks again!

[Jim A]

Nice vid!
It almost seems like the first try bumps into a tooth but aligns the mesh just enough for the second try to fit.
Sometimes the first alignment is OK.
Maybe it doesn't hit a tooth, but doesn't move far enough to make the internal electrical contact which would boost the gear into meshing.
I can't remember what changes you made that preceded this unfortunate situation, but I admire your tenacity and am sure clear skies are just ahead.

I am not sure how much I should risk jinxing my Jimmy and me, but I don't remember replacing or rebuilding my starter in 52 years.

[lizziemeister'sV6]

What kind of starter did you buy? A quality brand or a cheap POS from China? There is a thing known as the "high price of cheap".