Need ignition upgrade help/advice.

[massey478]

5Tractor guy and AZKen, my apology if my presentations of engineering facts and experiences seemed to be a battle of who is right and who is wrong. It was not intended to come across that way! It was to be presented as a discussion of engineering facts and sharing my hard earned experiences and with work on our tractor dyno with the Massey 1100 with the 478 for the edification of others here that have not had those opportunities. For the doubters about the MSD system, google "Benefits of an MSD ignition system" and read the testimonials and factory information. My son and I too adamantly ignored these systems on other's cars in years past, thinking we were as good as them with our Mopar orange box and stock or later the Excel Super Coil. After finally trying an MSD system we were amazed at the difference. A friend of ours followed suit with the same result on his strip/mostly street car. It will be of interest of those here to see that MSD systems actually do transfer down to stock motor use because of their ability to do the multiple 5 spark discharge (Hence the name "MSD") to enhance fuel mixture ignition up to 3,000 RPM which is the range in which most stock motors operate. Our car we race but drive on the street mostly is not a full race car. It is of all things a 1968 four door Dodge Monaco 440 CI with the 1960's era long ram two four barrel manifolds with chassis enhancements we know work on the strip but leave it street driveable with no problem. No performance stickers in the windows, etc. like lots of guys do. We look at all of the stickers and say "Right, how much of that stuff is really on your car and how much is to supposedly intimidate others?!". We believe in keeping a low profile and not ballyhooing what we have on the car, only things we have proven work. The MSD tremendously helped street performance, no more fouled plugs, better fuel mileage. I do not care about mileage anyway if the vehicle is doing what I want, but the improvement was still there! SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) journals detail how our 'friends' at EPA have caused gasoline refiners to make new gasolines with a long chain molecule instead of the older circular molecule structure our carbureted V-6 motors were designed to run on. They went to the long chain molecules because of vapor emissions when filling the tank for instance. The long chain molecular structure does not vaporize as fast as the older ring molecular structure, resulting in fewer vapors. This also means it does not vaporize in carbureted systems as fast as the older fuels did, making it harder to light and therefore decreasing fuel mileage and performance. Then you have the added 10% alcohol that makes it even worse as I have explained. Now they are trying to mandate 15% alcohol! The problem will become even worse! These problems do not come into play in the computer controlled fuel injection systems virtually all newer engines have currently. Those reasons are why we have to give our older motors all of the advantages we can given the changed fuel situations we now have to deal with.

[massey478]

The fuel mandates are very frustrating. The blended gasoline and diesel actually do not help the emissions to the environment at all. I buy the alcohol free 'boat fuel' we are fortunate enough to have at some stations like Country Mark here. It is 91 octane and more expensive but it goes in every older fuel system we have on combines, tractors and trucks not designed for the blend fuel, especially those that sit for periods of time between use. It is worth it not to have the corrosion problems blend fuel causes. The bean oil blend diesel is also very destructive to fuel systems not designed for it since it too is very corrosive with constituents removed that lubricated pumps and injectors to the point for older engines we have to put in additives to provide that lubrication or the older systems will be destroyed. Every time people like us try to present facts and figures for government meetings reviewing the mandates and showing how they are pointless we are ignored by big government and big money interests that want to keep their profits rolling in. The diversion of farm products to the fuel mandates has significantly increased what you pay for food. Another boondoggle is the removal of zinc from engine oils. We have to add STP or ZDDP type zinc bearing additives for our flat tappet motors or we will grind off the cam lobes and lifter bottoms will be cupped out. EPA is a government organization on a rampage with totally unreasonable and unneeded regulation. There is no good oversee of them, forcing them to prove the benefit of a ruling before they implement it. As is too often the case, we average Joes are the losers. Next they will mandate catalytic convertors for volcanoes!! LOL!! The Earth takes care of herself. Their favorite ploy is to present a problem, make us feel guilty for it to the point we allow them to run with it and make us pay for it, feeling good we helped in some way. I have to say "common sense" is not so common anymore! I wish everyone a great day and best of good times with your trucks.

[George Bongert]

Originally Posted by massey478

The fuel mandates are very frustrating. The blended gasoline and diesel actually do not help the emissions to the environment at all. I buy the alcohol free 'boat fuel' we are fortunate enough to have at some stations like Country Mark here. It is 91 octane and more expensive but it goes in every older fuel system we have on combines, tractors and trucks not designed for the blend fuel, especially those that sit for periods of time between use. It is worth it not to have the corrosion problems blend fuel causes. The bean oil blend diesel is also very destructive to fuel systems not designed for it since it too is very corrosive with constituents removed that lubricated pumps and injectors to the point for older engines we have to put in additives to provide that lubrication or the older systems will be destroyed. Every time people like us try to present facts and figures for government meetings reviewing the mandates and showing how they are pointless we are ignored by big government and big money interests that want to keep their profits rolling in. The diversion of farm products to the fuel mandates has significantly increased what you pay for food. Another boondoggle is the removal of zinc from engine oils. We have to add STP or ZDDP type zinc bearing additives for our flat tappet motors or we will grind off the cam lobes and lifter bottoms will be cupped out. EPA is a government organization on a rampage with totally unreasonable and unneeded regulation. There is no good oversee of them, forcing them to prove the benefit of a ruling before they implement it. As is too often the case, we average Joes are the losers. Next they will mandate catalytic convertors for volcanoes!! LOL!! The Earth takes care of herself. Their favorite ploy is to present a problem, make us feel guilty for it to the point we allow them to run with it and make us pay for it, feeling good we helped in some way. I have to say "common sense" is not so common anymore! I wish everyone a great day and best of good times with your trucks.

Greetings Massey!

You might want to check out Royal Purple's line of Synthetic oils, as they contain ZDDP. Now, I realize that synthetic oils are more expensive than crude base oils, but given the benefit of the ZDDP already in the oil, and the extended life of synthetic oils over crude base oils, the synthetic oil more than pays for itself in the long run by reducing engine wear and repair costs. Visit Royal Purple at; http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/r...ment-articles/. You can contact them with any questions you may have about their products, and they will promptly answer those questions via e-mail. I have recently started using Royal Purple in my car, and I am extremely pleased with their product, since it is my opinion that it is far superior to Mobil1 or Amsoil.

[LEWISMATKIN]

GEORGE & MASSEY, NAPA sells Royal Purple in up to 20w50. They possibly can order you either SAE30 OR SAE 40 as well. I run either 20w50 or SAE 30 in my older vehicles.

[snazzypig]

Regarding massey478's great explanation of the fuel boondoggle, it is probably the most costly fraud ever perpetrated on the American people and the entire world by our government. They promised it would benefit farmers by increasing corn prices, but it has mainly benefitted the pockets of politicians and big agriculture. I have heard figures in the billions of dollars it has cost the rest of us by forcing us to use the current nasty fuel blends and pay higher food prices.
To get back to 5Tractorguy's problem, I would say that today's so called gasoline does have an effect on his engine performance as well as all of ours.

[Quigley]

My two cents worth on ignition and oil. MSD is a great improvement over other ignition systems. A lot of times it will take away some of the cold blooded symptoms on Motors. Last week at the shop I do my work at MSD was installed on a 62hp tractor on the Dino and went to 76hp and ran smoother at all speeds. On the oil recommendation I run Chevron Delo 10W 30 in my V6s. I have driven and owned diesel semis for over 45yrs and close to 5 million miles. I believe something when I see it with my own eyes. The last truck I had ran 987000 miles before it was traded off with no oil use and the same oil pressure as day one. That was with Delo 400LE 15-40 and 20000 mile changes. Just my experiences your mileage may vary. Dave

[massey478]

Thank you, George, Lewis, snazzypig, and Quigley for your good responses! I will check out the oil recommendations. Good to see someone is putting zinc back in them. Quigley, the HP increase due to MSD is what we saw on the Massey 1100 with the 478 in it. Our problem is our M&W Gear dyno is a 540 RPM unit so it does not go as high for HP rating as the 1,000 RPM models. My son has an Massey 1155 with the 540 Perkins V-8 diesel in with a modified fuel system. He pushed the dyno above 200 HP with it and cracked the dyno pump rear housing. That took some welding and machining to repair! So, we now do not push it above its highest rating. I cannot tell you, therefore, how much actual HP the 478 gained with the MSD. I can say it reached the 200 HP dyno maximum HP capability at a much lower RPM on the PTO than before the installation of the MSD, which is a sure indicator of higher HP output. When we put the MSD on our Monaco, cammed, and a friend of ours did the same with a cammed 440 motor in a 1965 Coronet, it almost sounded like we changed cams due to how much the idle smoothed out. Running it out proved no cam change, but an increase in street drive-ability and better acceleration was noted.

[AZKen]

Originally Posted by massey478

Thank you, George, Lewis, snazzypig, and Quigley for your good responses! I will check out the oil recommendations. Good to see someone is putting zinc back in them. Quigley, the HP increase due to MSD is what we saw on the Massey 1100 with the 478 in it. Our problem is our M&W Gear dyno is a 540 RPM unit so it does not go as high for HP rating as the 1,000 RPM models. My son has an Massey 1155 with the 540 Perkins V-8 diesel in with a modified fuel system. He pushed the dyno above 200 HP with it and cracked the dyno pump rear housing. That took some welding and machining to repair! So, we now do not push it above its highest rating. I cannot tell you, therefore, how much actual HP the 478 gained with the MSD. I can say it reached the 200 HP dyno maximum HP capability at a much lower RPM on the PTO than before the installation of the MSD, which is a sure indicator of higher HP output. When we put the MSD on our Monaco, cammed, and a friend of ours did the same with a cammed 440 motor in a 1965 Coronet, it almost sounded like we changed cams due to how much the idle smoothed out. Running it out proved no cam change, but an increase in street drive-ability and better acceleration was noted.

Wow! , this post has been hijacked from the original poster.

[Quigley]

Originally Posted by AZKen

Wow! , this post has been hijacked from the original poster.

Original post is about upgrading ignition is it not? Oil was a add on. Dave

[Ed Snyder]

Originally Posted by George Bongert

I have recently started using Royal Purple in my car, and I am extremely pleased with their product, since it is my opinion that it is far superior to Mobil1 or Amsoil.

You can find a lot on the internet regarding Royal Purple vs. Amsoil. This is a good one: http://www.kc-synthetic-oil.com/AMSO...al-purple.html. I think the author hits the nail on the head when he says "There are a few topics you should never bring up at your family holiday party. Those topics are religion, politics, and what motor oil you should use. A lot of emotion gets tied up in a man's choice of motor oil."

I've been using nothing but Amsoil since 1974. Their Z-ROD oil is formulated with high ZDDP to protect flat-tappet cams. See https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...?code=ZRTQT-EA