Not getting power to coil

[AZKen]

Ok good, explain where they go also. I understand you don't want to use the resistance wire.
Another thing, where there/are there any wires on the "R" terminal of starter solenoid? If so where do they go. This is info to help you, help others later and we may see why the other unit failed. Lets me advise on how to eliminate the resistance wire and wire the unit. You are at a good stage to supply info on the subject for the Club archives. Thanks.

Some of the Pertronix info/instructions about eliminating resistance wire or ballast does not seem apply to 60-66 GMC.

[newyorksong]

Sorry had to take a 30min course on how to use phone flash. Lets see if I attached this pic properly.

[AZKen]

I see some wires and some blurry stuff and a black window spider. But I don't know anymore than I did. Try another day. Read the post above. You may have forgotten again to look for responses. You must get into that habit. This is taking way too long because of that. I'm trying to stay on a roll so I don't have to relearn all this every other day.

[newyorksong]

Starter-pic

[AZKen]

OK, it's my fault. I should have never asked for pictures. I should have stuck with a full and precise explanation from you as to what you see and where each wire goes. Meaning it's other end and how it got there. I will say you are now an expert at taking and posting pics. That is wonderful. Just remember wiring is tricky. It's important not to make mistakes. Especially if you are advising someone from 2000 miles away trying to look at a pic.

Read the posts, read my questions, get me the info. The other option is to wire it up. I'm not saying I'm taking over this deal. You obviously know how to read instructions and install it. That would also save me from any responsibility. I only do what the voices in my head tell me to do.

[newyorksong]

Yup gotta rest ... below freezing now, and that Black widow is eyeing me like I'm the last juicy fly in town! It's always been a nightmare for me once it hits harness, but I'll try to figure by continuity where the black and yellow wire go.

[AZKen]

The idea of the ballast resistor, or later, the resistance wire, was to save the points. Make them last longer. Full 12V will burn them out PDQ. The resistance wire reduces the voltage to around 8-9 volts to the coil so that points last way longer. The starter takes a HUGE amount of amps and a lot of the 12V while cranking the motor. So much voltage; that you can't have it going thru a ballast or resistance wire to the coil during that time or there would not be enough voltage to fire the points/plugs.

So enter: the "bypass"
The original GMC wiring to power the coil was a pink wire from the ignition switch "on" terminal to the 6 pin connector mounted on the passenger firewall. As it came out of the connector on the engine side, it came out as a weird looking whitish, yellowish, oddly insulated nickel copper wire. The famous resistance wire. Which went to the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid. Also on the "R" terminal was a normal yellow wire. It went to the coil positive terminal. The operation of that "R" terminal is that it is dead most of the time. Dead meaning it does not provide any voltage. It's just a termination point for two wires. The resistance wire and the yellow wire. When the ignition switch is held at max clockwise for starting, The violet wire from the ignition "start" terminal sends 12V to the solenoid "S" terminal which energizes the solenoid, which causes the starter to spin. Voltage also flows from the ignition switch thru the pink, then resistance wire to the "R" terminal. But AH HA the solenoid has also given the "R" terminal 12V. This solenoid supplied voltage over rides or bypasses the lower resisted voltage from the ignition and sends full 12V thru the yellow wire to the coil. Motor starts, you let go, "R" becomes dead, now a termination point and coil only gets 8-9 V from ignition switch.

You don't have points so you don't need all that magic. You just need the ignition switch "on" terminal to supply 12V to coil positive for Pertronix. So two wires on coil pos, one on coil neg.
You don't need any wires to go to, or come from, the solenoid "R" terminal.

The reason I was asking where the wires went is:
1. I was looking for a wire to use for the coil and to see which needed taped off and/or coiled up to abandon resistance wire. If no switched power wire is found, you will run a new wire.
2. Trying to figure out why there was 3 wires on the coil positive. It's possible it was OK that way.
3. Wanted to confirm what Pertronix wiring instructions A. 2. says about following wire to fuse box and jumping is not applicable here.
4. Make sure I don't screw up.

One more aspect to this TMI saga. Back in 55-56, when GM went to 12V, which needed a resistance circuit, the starters did not have an "R" terminal. The situation was handled by the ignition switch alone. That's where you see "Ign-1" and "Ign-2" terminals on the ignition switch. You had a wire from each of those to coil positive. In start position, Ign-2 sent 12V direct to coil. Spring back to "ON" and Ign-2 was dead and Ign-1 sent 12V to ballast resistor. When folks reuse parts, they end up sometimes with an "R" starter and a Ign-1/Ign-2 switch. Then all h-ell breaks loose.

Keep notching that cap. I'm with you til the end.

[newyorksong]

Whew! Thanks for the detailed explanation. Since it ran for many years with no trouble with the 8v or so, I think I will go for it tomorrow and hook up as it was.
When I say go for it I just mean holding the plug to the engine to see if there is spark.
Pretty sure that initially it stopped running because of the carb but had plenty of spark and then I'm pretty sure I burned out the PerTronix l by starting it for days and battery charging another few days and prob leaving key on for a loooooong time as well. Hopefully the PerTronix ll doesn't burn out so fast.

So gonna give it a shot as is. What is the saying? "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Maybe the positve connections at the coil weren't broke. We'll know more in the morning.

[gmcjuniorvan]

Electrical is not my thing so just a thought.
The coil runs on 8-9V. If you run 12v to an external resistance coil it could over heat and it burn out. After looking at the 64 wiring diagram. Its looks like the resistance wire start at the plug in the engine compartment. Disconnect it, turn the ignition switch to the run position. And check voltage at 18-p-3 on the R.H dash bulkhead connection in the wiring diagram. If 12v. Pull the resistance wire pin out and replace it with a new wire and connect it to the coil. Then connect the Pertronix to the coil.
Or disconnect the resistance wire from the coil turn the ignition switch to the run position. And check voltage on the wire it could be almost 12v. If it is then connect wire and the Pertronix to the coil.
I think the amount of resistance in the wire depends on the length of the wire, the longer the wire the more resistance. And the resistance wire should go to the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid.

And go I would buy an internal resistance coil just to be safe.


64 wiring diagram

[AZKen]

If it ain't broke fix it til it is.

By the way, it's tomorrow right now. Are you busy putting the fire out?