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Transmissions and Rear Ends Three on the tree or four in the floor? Shift it all here.

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  #1  
Old June 17th, 2019, 10:02 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

Can anyone give me any more tips on what to search for in terms of rear disc brake conversion if trying to find a disc rotor with an internal drum parking brake?

The Dana 44 (Big Ford Rear pattern brackets/housing flanges) Wilwood kit sure is nice, but I am looking to spend half of what the $800 price tag on that is...

Don't the 2nd gen S10 Blazers use a drum parking brake inside the rotor hat? Are these a smaller lug pattern than the half ton 5 lug (are these 5 on 5.5? I read mentions of 5 on 5, I know my 70-81 Camaros were all 5 on 4-3/4")? Aren't the full size cars 5 on 5 (or 5.5?) also? Same as half ton trucks? I think I'm getting confused with the 6 lug on 5.5" that some GM trucks and Toyota trucks use, and the 1/2 ton Chevy truck 5 lug is a 5" bolt circle?

I also believe I recall reading that a late model Grand Cherokee had the same Dana 44 diff housing flange, and had rear discs with a drum parking brake, but I cannot find that mention now, and can't find any other conversion info using those search terms.



THANKS!

Chuck
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Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 03:34 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 10:03 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

I have nice American Racing 15x8 5 lug wheels and a 1991 (73-91 suburban/73-87 pickup all same front x-members) 2wd disc brake coil spring front crossmember to swap on primarily to have stock off the shelf parts with a long model run for best availability, $40-90 in ball joints vs the 62 GMC $450 in ball joints, worth it alone - entire premium front end rebuild on the 73-91 front end will be less than the 62 ball joints! Plus I get to ditch the 60-62 ball bearing front wheel bearing setup, as if they need replaced, new replacements of any reputable quality are becoming more and more difficult to find, so switching to the 63+ tapered bearings brings much better quality into the picture, as well as more reduced cost...

Here's a tutorial on bolting up a 73-87/91 (thru 87 pickup, same as thru 91 Suburban) front crossmember onto a 60-62. The 63-66 or 63-69 (when was the first year for front discs?) is slightly easier, more holes line up on the existing frame.
Basically you end up with 2 holes on each side that line up, and you have to drill 3 more holes and elongate 1? and then relocate the shock upper mounting brackets. Also, if not using the 60-62 idler arm, you have to drill mounting holes for the 73-87/91 idler arm.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=366850


I wish it were as easy as a 4x4 where you have a 2 pc splined slip fit driveshaft and a transfer case/driveshaft output flange, where you can just bolt up an e-brake rotor and mount a mechanical caliper bracket kit... Then run front calipers on the rear and not worry about e-brake at the wheels.
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Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 05:00 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 10:09 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

Aha... I did just dig this up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryGMC View Post
Being a Jeep nut and old truck crazy has given me some unique perspectives on how to improve/modify our old stuff without going broke in the process.

For the rear use an Isuzu rodeo/Honda passport D44. It has disc brakes. Usually a trac lock 3 series carrier with a thick 4.09 ring gear and six bolt axles. These are 95.00 in the pick and pull yards. These are 1/2 inch narrower than the stock D44 in our GMC's . And 100.00 was on an adjustable brake proportioning valve. Keep on thinkin.... Barry Charon

No clue what lug pattern these are, but this is another helpful tip. As long as they don't use a driveline e-brake as they are perhaps both 4x4/AWD?

EDIT - it sounds like it is 1998-??? Isuzu Rodeos which were also rebadged as Honda Passports. I did not know this. And from what I am reading, they are 6 on 5.5 bolt pattern. That is what our half ton 1000's were stock, was it not? Wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface is allegedly 63" - very close to our Dana 44's. Weld on the proper trailing arm bracketry, and this could be a good swap with off-the-shelf axle availability...
Some of them have a really cool finned aluminum diff cover as well.

The 6 on 5.5" lug pattern makes it real difficult to re-drill it to 5 on 5, as some of the holes would overlap. I think I read that the Grand Cherokee Dana 44 rear disc with drum parking brake was a 5 on 4.5"? That could be redrilled far easier since you could stagger the holes. Or perhaps use the Wilwood rotors which have several different lug patterns.


Also, I think a general theme here with converting our rears to disc is that the axle shaft wheel/drum register needs turned down to 3" or so, from closer to 3.5" - in order to fit the proper discs for at least the Seville/ElDorado conversion.
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Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 03:35 AM.
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  #4  
Old June 17th, 2019, 11:05 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

I found this, but I don't think that the axle housing 4 bolt flanges are the same bolt patterns as our old GMC D44's (3.5"x3" from memory? same as "Big Fords), $445 for the kit really isn't too bad vs the $775 Wilwood. On the axle housing flange bolt pattern, it does appear that there is a second set of hole knockouts below the first, that are more symmetrical-appearing to the upper set of holes, so perhaps this could fit? Not sure on the center bore, either. This can all be adjusted with some precision and skill (or a machinist friend if the center bore is not the same).





https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-17...brake-kit.html

Fits 1990 to 2006 Wrangler With Dana 44 and Dana 35. Fits 1990 to 2001 XJ Cherokee With Dana 35 and Chrysler 8.25in.
Dramatically increase your braking power by upgraded your drums to this performance rear disc brake kit.

Kit Includes:
*Two Premium Rotors (5x4.5 & 5x5.5 Drilled)
*Premium Pads
*Two New Calipers
*Two New Backing Plates with Shoes Installed
*Two Stainless Steel Brake Lines
*Two Bearing Spacers
*All Mounting Hardware
Select To Add E-Brake Cables Below








Also read that a 1995-ish Ford Crown Victoria has a rear disc Dana 44... THIS may be one to look into as perhaps there is a chance that it has a 5 on 5 pattern:
https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1045256




THIS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by From https://www.cj-8.com/threads/isuzu-dana-44-rear.7135/
I installed an Isuzu Rodeo dana 44 rear to replace my aging scout rear. 93 and up Rodeos are standard dana 44s with rear disc brakes (the kind with the drum parking brake like the Ford 8.8). They are also centered diff (both shafts the same length) and come with either 4.10 or 4.3 gearing and usually trac-lock. The shafts are 1.45" diameter (huge) vs. 1.31" like other dana 44s and non 35-spline dana 60s (35-spline 60 is 1.50"). The e-brake cables easily adapt to the jeep setup. I have better brake feel than ever before without any mods. Rodeo rears are 58" width just like the scout, but it does require 6 bolt rims. It allows easily switching to a dana 44 front from either chevy, dodge, or wagoneer, and you no longer have to search for the 74-76 spindles to retain the 5 bolt pattern if you want a front 44. Early Honda Passports used the exact same rear. These axles are very abundant in salvage yards, so it's easy to grab some spare shafts. You do need to change the flanged pinion yoke with a standard u-joint type yoke, but that's easy. I just wanted to offer a nice alternative to the Scout rear option. Enjoy!




The Isuzu brake fittings are metric and did need to be adapted, but that was trivial. Early Rodeos and I think all Troopers use the Isuzu corporate rear with the dropout third member, but I'm not highly versed in the Isuzu line.


Also be aware that the lug bolts are metric on the Isuzu axle. You can replace these if you wish or just get metric lug nuts. Just make sure the tire store guy knows when you go to rotate tires.

motherload of Isuzu Dana 44 data on this page:
http://www.isuzu4x.com/modules.php?n...howpage&pid=21

Finally, link to Isuzu D44 thread on Pirate4x4:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/archi.../t-282793.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by From Jp Magazine
Isuzu Dana 44
Axle: ’93-present Isuzu Dana 44
Lug pattern: 6-on-5 ½
Differential location: Centered
Width: 58 inches
Spring location: Spring-under 39 ½ inches apart
Perch width: 2 ½ inches; some have four-link brackets
Common ratio: 4.30:1
Swap into: It’s a perfect swap for Dana 35s or the Chrysler 8¼ rears found in YJs, TJs, and XJs. The only bummer is the 6-lug pattern. It can either be redrilled or the front can be changed to match using a hub conversion kit. This 44 will also work well in early models looking for more width and stability as long as your Jeep needs a centered differential.
Bonus tips: The Isuzu 44 has a weird flange style yoke but it can be swapped out for a regular Dana 44 1310 or whatever size U-joint you want. All of the internals are the same as other Dana 44s. It has 30-spline flanged axles, strong tubes, and even comes with disc brakes and cool separate drums for an e-brake. However, you will need tubing adapters to mate standard brake lines to the metric lines on the Isuzu axle. The original perches are too far apart to fit most Jeeps so they will need to be removed and welded in the proper locations.


Aha... Jeep ZJ = Grand Cherokee:
Quote:
Originally Posted by From http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Dana_44_Rear_Axle_Disc_Brake_Conversion/index.html


This shows the difference. The center will need to be reamed out, the bolt pattern welded and re-drilled to match, and a custom spacer (next pic) machined to fit on the shaft outboard of the axle seal, to ensure the bearing sits in the race properly. Note that the D35 NON c-clip axle bearing retainer bolt pattern is identical to the D44, and so if you copy what I did you can fit the ZJ discs on your d35 non c-clip the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From https://comancheclub.com/topic/19532-rear-disc-brake-conversion/


IMO, the Explorer conversion is the easiest to obtain. There are plenty of 4-disc Explorers in the junkyards. Here's my Explorer rear disc equipped Dana 44.

ZJ (Grand Cherokee) rear discs are not a direct bolt on for a Commanche D44. You need to make a spacer (axle retainer) as the ZJ one is not thick enough. You'll also need to enlarge the center hole of the backing plate a bit as well for the D44.

As far as bolt-on kits available on the market; Crown as well as TeraFlex both make kits now that include everything needed and that will simply just bolt-on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by From https://dandcextreme.com/product/scout-ii-rear-disc-brake-kit/



Scout II Rear Disc Brake Kit

The Scout II Rear Disc Brake kit from D and C Extreme provides an easy to install, bolt on solution for upgrading your Scout II Dana 44 rear axle. As most Scout owners know the rear drum brakes are one off parts only used on the Scouts and the parts are getting harder to come by and more and more expensive all the time. With the stock drum brake parts getting harder to find now is the time to upgrade to rear disc brakes. Our kit provides all the brackets and spacers to fit the unique flange found on the Scout II Dana 44 rear axle. The kit also includes the brake hoses and an e-brake cable extension kit. If you’ve been shopping around you’ll see that these items are options on a lot of other kits out there.

Our kit is 100% bolt on and you do NOT have to remove the axle/wheel bearing for the install! Top that off with our custom 5 on 5 1/2″ bolt pattern rotors that fit over the axle flange with NO machining required. Our Scout II rear disc brake kit is one of the easiest ways to improve your Scout’s braking performance.

The D and C Extreme Scout II Rear Disc Brake kit is available in both standard and high performance models. For $50.00 you can upgrade to the high performance kit which consists of cross-drilled and slotted rotors and stainless steel braided brake lines. With the high performance kit you can also add red or black powder coated calipers for an additional $50.00.
All New From the Start

This kit uses all new parts, the calipers are NOT rebuilt, they are brand new GM metric style and use standard metric brake pads available at any auto parts store. Our brackets are all laser cut and plated. The E-brake cables, hoses, and rotors are all brand new and we keep individual parts in stock if you would ever need them.
Applications:

IH Scout II 1971 – 1980
IH Scout II Terra 1976 – 1980
IH Scout II Traveler 1976 – 1980







More on the Crown Vic D44 rear discs:
https://www.jeepin.com/features/cvdiscs


A mention from the Explorer forum that perhaps the Crown Victoria (CV) rear discs have a different axle housing flange bolt pattern than the Ford Explorer D44's, and also highlights using some Ford Ranger rear disc parts as an upgrade to the Explorer setup for longer pads and more resistance to brake fade:
https://www.explorerforum.com/forums...pgrade.459983/


So far, it sounds to me as if the Crown Victoria or Explorer (or Ranger?) rear disc brakes with integral rotor hat drum parking brake will be the easiest swap. Perhaps they are both 5 on 5.5? Not sure on axle housing bolt patterns, I think those two may have different patterns. [EDIT - it sounds like the Explorer is the smaller 5 on 4.5" bolt circle...)
__________________
Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 03:37 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?




Above is the Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ and Jeep XJ D44 bolt patterns. I believe this is different than the Crown Vic slightly, and also the Explorer may be a different pattern again.

I went out and crawled under the 62 GMC 1000 panel truck in the rain real quickly and got some very rough measurements, looks as if the Dana 44 bearing retainer bolt pattern on the ends of the axle housing tubes is approximately 2.75" x 3.75" very roughly, eyeballing with the wheels on, from the back sides without the truck jacked up... The 2.75" was fairly accurate, but the 2.75" measurement could be a bit more off.

I think I read on here or the other old Chevy trucks website that the "Big Ford" rear end bolt pattern is the same as ours????? I can find those dimensions listed on here, and will later on most likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From https://comancheclub.com/topic/57351-dana-44-disc-brake-conversion/
Backing plate bolt patterns:
- 95 - 01' Ford 8.8 rear discs backing plate has a 2" x 3 9/16" bolt pattern  (Explorer-only, or others such as Crown Vic etc? Ranger?)
- 86 - 90 MJ/XJ D44 has a 2" x 3 11/32" bolt pattern 

The second problem that needs modification is compensating for the difference in thickness between the Explorer backing plate vs the D44 drum backing plate.

- Explorer disc brake backing plates are .350" thick 

- 86 - 90 MJ/XJ D44 backing plates are .125" thick 

Giving a thickness difference of .225" between the two. You can have a machine shop custom make a spacer to make up the difference or you can go the easy route and look to Teralex. Teraflex uses a spacer in the aftermarket D44 conversion kit they sell to compensate for this difference. A search on the webpage showed the spacers to be available for purchase by themselves, PN 86261, for $6.99 each. The spacer are .226" thick. The addition of the spacer will require the axle shaft bearings be replaced. When you go to press axle shaft bearing assemblies on the spacer will go between the D44 retaining plate and the oil seal. Make sure the tapered side of the spacer is facing the oil seal.


Note - the above link confirms unfortunately that the Explorer and the Jeep 5 lug rotors are all 5 on 4.5" bolt circle. Still able to be re-drilled to 5 on 5" however, unlike a similar bolt circle 6-lug pattern which would have holes overlapping.


Also, getting the parking brake cables to work with the newer rotor hat drum brake setups is going to likely take a little bit of fabrication.
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Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 03:32 AM.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

I can't help, but replying to subscribe and see how this goes.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 04:01 AM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

More GMC-specific Dana 44 info, but this pretty much all ONLY covers the old Cadillac style combo hydraulic rear disc caliper / mechanical corkscrew e-brake mechanism on hydraulic caliper. I am trying to find a good alternate to these brakes, as the e-brakes are not very effective, and the calipers are a mild pain in the @$$ to rebuild.

It looks like getting one of the Ford Crown Vic or Explorer rear disc setups with the integral rotor hat drum parking brake, and then having the center bore opened up on a lathe to keep it's centricity, and then re-drilling the backing plate for the correct bolt pattern, and then fabricating or purchasing a spacer to go under the bearing retainer plate...this may be the best and only route to get the integral parking brake setup. May also require fabrication for the e-brake cables to work on them.
So this makes the p.i.t.a. Seville/etc 79-85 GM calipers look like perhaps a better deal if those OldeDays Classic Parts brackets do in fact directly bolt to our 60-66 GMC axle housing flanges as they reportedly do to the 67-72 GMC Dana 44 rear axle housings... Also, the Seville/Deville/Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera/TransAm caliper setup may likely be much narrower than the integral drum parking brake style, so this may end up being the best bet after all? And just deal with the not-as-strong-holding integral disc caliper mechanical parking brake and more difficult rebuilds?


Quote:
Originally Posted by From http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=397576
The Dana 44 rear ends in the 67-72 trucks have axle mounting flanges based on the Ford 9" early big bearing. So basically any disc brake kit based on the Ford 9" early big bearing will / should work. There are a bunch of disc brake kits out there but the most cost effective approach I could find is to buy the parts individually as follows:

Bracket Kit ($70) - https://shop.oldedaysclassiccarparts...&categoryId=29
You could make your own but I figured it would cost more than $70 in materials and my time to make a set.

1985 Cadillac Seville Calipers ($150 to $200) - eBay is your best bet for a reman set but these are still pricey without a core exchange. Just make sure you get the semi-loaded caliper with all the brackets etc. for the parking brake. I got lucky and found a fresh reman set that a guy needed to get rid of. You could also save a few bucks by using the front calipers off the same car if you don't need and e-brake.

1978 Cadillac Seville Rear Rotors ($60 - $120) - I am going with a 5x5 bolt pattern and these rotors come stock with a 5x5 pattern. You will have to get them re-drilled if you need a different bolt pattern. eBay is probably your best price option here as well. The price will depend on if they are cross drilled, slotted, and with or without pads included.

GM Metric Caliper Brake Hose Kit ($40 - $60) - (2) -3 15" long brake hoses; (2) 3/16" inverted flare to -3 adapters; (2) weld-on brake adapter mounts; (2) brake adapter clips; (2) 10mm x 1.5 banjo bolts; (2) 10mm to -3 banjos; (4) 10mm crush washers. Price depends on if you go with rubber or SS braided hoses.

Axle Modifications - The center pilot hub on this rear end is 3.5" and the pilot hole on the Seville rotors is 3.07" which means you will need to have the hub pilot on both axles turned down to 3" (or the rotor hold opened up to 3.51"). The stock bolt pattern is a 6 lug setup so if you want to change this to some other bolt pattern the axles will have to be re-drilled for that pattern. The wheel studs for the 5x5 pattern is 1/2" so those things like that need to be considered as well. This could end up being a lot of machine work so it may be a better to purchase a set of custom built axles from Dutchman, Moser, or Currie. I have the axle dimensions if you are interested.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

redrill your axles to 5x5 pattern
2 front rotors from a AWD astro van (5x5 pattern) 80$
Rear calipers from 1979 Cadillac Eldorado at rockauto170$ including core
weld-on caliper brackets from speedway motors 30$ shipped (or the $80 bolt-on kit above)
longer wheel studs
plus hoses

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a 67 GMC with a rear Dana 44 and leaf springs and I pulled one of the axles and counted the splines and my truck is a 30 spline. All of the after market posi diffs are based on the Dana 44 30 spline so there are lots of options. I suspect all of the 67-72 GMC trucks with a D44 would also be 30 spline but you don't know 100% unless you pull an axle and start counting.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a Dana 44 rear also and just had the axle bearings checked and they are Ford 9 bearings. I am now going to determine if the housing end bolt pattern is Ford 9" also.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also just measured the bolt dimensions on the axle housing end (68 GMC). They are the same as a big ford housing end. 3.5" x 2.375". You can find these dimensions on the assembly instructions document on the Wilwood website. Wilwood brake set 140-7139 should bolt right up to that housing end. I still need to confirm the bearing offset, I think that may have to be changed or find a brake kit with a different offset.

I just confirmed that the axle pilot hole will have to be turned down to fit the 140-7139 Wilwood kit, but other than that, the axle housing end and bearing on the Dana 44 is big a Ford 9" setup, awesome. Captain Fab also mentions turning down the axle pilot on some of his brake kits (I didn't quite understand at first). Anyway good luck with your setup, I'm glad you got this all posted in the first place, saved me a bunch of time and money.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


If you want to go the build your own route here is what you need:
* Ford 9" Bracket Kit (from Oldedays)
* Left Rear Caliper GM 79-85 (Cardone 18-4139) this one has the parking brake
* Right Rear Caliper GM 79-85 (Cardone 18-4139) this one has the parking brake
* Brake pads for GM 79-85 rear caliper
* 1978 Seville Rear Rotors (can get get slotted and drilled as option)
* Disc Brake Hose Kit (Gear Head 9828) this one is stainless
* Parking brake cable (BrakeBest BC93292) needs a little customization
* Get axles turned for a 3" pilot and outer flange diameter of 6.125" or just have some new axles built like I did. When I compared the cost of all the machine work (including 6 to 5 lug) to the cost of new ones it was only about $100 more. Got mine from Dutchman Motorsports.
fasttech is offline

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And for reference, the old "Big Ford" 9" rear axle housing bolt pattern, straight from the OldeDays Classic Parts website bracket kit page, is as follows:
https://shop.oldedaysclassiccarparts...&categoryId=29



My rough eyeballed measurements laying under my truck sitting on it's own tires and wheels (not jacked up, couldn't see well at all) and in the rain (rushed) were something somewhere near 3.75x2.75" - I will pull the jack out from the front end tomorrow when I finish reinstalling my freshly painted clutch slave cylinder pushrod, and then jack up the rear and measure it a bit more properly.





Here is the rest of the info from the OldeDays Classic Parts website link above, note they state 3.5"x2.5" bearing pockets in their text, but then they illustrate 3.5"x2.375" in their sketch... Also note, only 5 on 5.5 listed here, no 5 on 5". Perhaps the 90-94 (99-01?) AstroVan 4wd front rotors are what we need here, as one person from the other Chevy/GM trucks forum mentioned?

FITS FORD 9" BIG BEARING (Early Style), REAR DISC BRAKE SET UP that have the same Backing Plate Spacer measurements as in our photo.
NOTE: Must use wheels (rims) made to clear disc brakes
The Bolt Holes for plate are for 1/2" T- bolts.

Fits "Early" Big-Bearing Pockets That Measure 3-1/2" x 2-1/2" Bolt Centers With 1/2'" T-Bolts.
Please make sure of your measurements BEFORE you order.... If unsure please call us direct.

YOU MUST USE THE CALIPERS AND ROTORS THAT WE LIST HERE IN THE LISTING AND NOTHING ELSE.
THEY USE THE 1980 TO 1985 CADILLAC SEVILLE CALIPERS (Rear for e-brake and front for non-ebrake).

For 5 X 4.5" Bolt Pattern use the 1978 Cadillac Seville rear rotors and have them re-drilled. ****Please Note**** Make sure they fit the axle flange before drilling them out (different manufactures have different flange size diameters). If they do not fit you will have to turn your axle flange down in diameter to fit.

For 5 X 5.5" Bolt Pattern use 1978 Cadillac Seville Rear Rotors and have them re-drilled. ****Please Note**** Make sure they fit the axle flange before drilling them out (different manufactures have different flange size diameters). If they do not fit you will have to turn your axle flange down in diameter to fit.

For 5 X 4.75" Bolt Pattern use 1979 Trans Am Rear Rotors - 11" diameter.

NOTE: you will need to check for correct diameter, thickness, offset and fit on axle flange before redrilling the rotor as some rotors may require to have your axle flange turned down to fit.
New. MADE IN USA. Very nice setup.
Comes with hardware and instructions.
__________________
Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 05:06 AM.
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  #8  
Old June 18th, 2019, 02:37 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

Well now... on the rear discs, it turns out that the ,79-85 Cadillac/Buick Riviera/Olds Tornonado & 79-81 WS6 Trans Am rear disc/e-brake calipers are getting a bit scarce, and the core charges are pretty spendy...
The only manufacturer that has both left rear & right rear both stocked is Centric. Fortunately all rebuild parts seem to be available, but if you need just a caliper piston, you're looking at $60 each, and they are side-specific due to the emergency brake corkscrew/worm gear mechanism.
Also, I learned something new that the Trans Am calipers have different part numbers than if you look up a Cadillac Seville. This I did not know. slightly different rebuild kit part numbers as well. BUT the cross reference also shows a Cadillac Eldorado 1979-1985 on the Trans Am part numbers, AND the Eldorado shows up on the Seville caliper cross references as well, but no Trans Am.... The T/A listing also says 79-81 Trans Am AND 78-81 Camaro, but I NEVER knew this to be an option on the Camaro, and I was a huge 70-81 Camaro fanatic in my teenage years through my 20's... The Trans Am calipers are not available as a set anymore, they seem to be quite scarce. I had better grab what is left for my dad's 1980 Trans Am and my old 71 RS/SS 396 that I sold him (upgraded to '79 WS6 T/A 3.23 positraction with rear discs, Tremec 5 speed, and a built 406cid)... for future repairs...



Here are the brakes, the Caddy/Riviera/Toronado listings. The brake lines are also metric, M10x1.5 thread, so you'll need an adapter coupler/bushing/reducer fitting on one end or the other going to the axle line from the hard line on the frame.


*CENTRIC 14162512 Reman.; Includes: Hardware, Rear Left $97.79 ($50 core)
*CENTRIC 14162511 Reman.; Includes: Hardware, Rear Right $102.79 ($50 core)

Centric semi-loaded calipers are remanufactured to meet exacting standards ensuring worry free performance for the life of the caliper. Each Centric caliper is 100% pressure tested and inspected to guarantee proper operation and fitment. Centric semi-loaded calipers include hardware and brackets where applicable.
CENTRIC Warranty Information:
90 days/3,000 miles
BUICK RIVIERA 1979-1985
CADILLAC ELDORADO 1979-1985
CADILLAC SEVILLE 1980-1985
OLDSMOBILE TORONADO 1979-1985












Caliper Rebuild Kits:
*RAYBESTOS WK1415 {#301415} SEAL KIT; Professional Grade; Disc Brake Caliper Info
Rear $10.54 each caliper, not side-specific



Caliper Pistons:
*RAYBESTOS DPS85068 Professional Grade; Steel Phenolic Steel Info
Rear Left $60.79

*RAYBESTOS DPS85067 Professional Grade; Steel Phenolic Steel Info
Rear Right $60.79


(you can see the worm gear or whatever it is technically called, on the internal side of the piston, center hole)



Also, it looks as if a 79-82 Corvette master cylinder may work well for this application at a 1.125" bore:
*RAYBESTOS MC39052 {#2539052} Element3 $37.79


I originally went with a 67 1-ton truck master, and planned to remove the residual valve on the front circuit when I converted to front disc. this master left the rear drums with far too much power over the fronts, and a proportioning valve was necessary, as it should be on any conversion really. I did power booster conversion as well at same time, so my brakes became much more powerful and I could lock up the rear drums first, which would lead to dangerous handling and caused me to slide sideways through a highway exit sign when some moron went from start & stop traffic at 0-15mph and floored it across the solid white lines triangular area right before the grass at the exit, at which I was barreling down the exit lane at 45mph on wet road conditions...


It looks like on my order for all new front end polyurethane a-arm bushings, premium ball joints & tie rods, etc for my 1973-1987/1991(88-91 Suburban is same as 73-87 pickup/suburban) front end swap, I ordered a more commonly available and thus more affordable front disc/rear drum 1980 CHEVROLET C10 SUBURBAN 5.7L 350cid V8 ACDELCO 18M66 Master Cylinder, for $ 34.79. This was also a 1.125" bore master cylinder same as the Corvette 4 wheel disc master, and will work for rear discs whenever I do the swap, simply by pulling the internals out and removing the residual valve that is on the rear circuit.
On the single circuit 60-66 brake master cylinder that I use as a clutch master cylinder, the residual valve is at the end of the spring at the very front where the sole outlet is. I'm not sure how a dual circuit dual drum master works as far as residual valve location, or a disc front/drum rear, but if I recall (foggy memory from decades ago), the front reservoir/piston-plunger is for the rear brakes? so perhaps it would have the same setup? I have seen some that have residual valves on the outlets where the brake lines attach as well, but I don't believe these are like that.




****Soooo.... due to the impending scarcity of these 1979-1985 rear calipers with integral parking brake, the newer disc with integral drum parking brake in the rotor hat doesn't seem like that bad of an idea other than bolt patterns on the axle and the axle housing possibly needing altered, and the rotor hole or axle register needing turned down
__________________
Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 03:18 PM.
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  #9  
Old June 18th, 2019, 06:52 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

Well Rock Auto just had one caliper left of the AC Delco remanufactured variety, and I was considering buying it and a Centric for the other side to match, just to have a set as they are getting more scarce and expensive, but that caliper sold since last night and they have none left! I prefer AC Delco or Bendix parts over all others especially critical life-saving components like brakes and steering (Moog,TRW, etc), so I searched the part number, and based on the other brands using part numbering with a 1 or a 2 at the end to designate left vs right, I used the 18FR792 part number that I had seen on Rock Auto (now brings up nothing as they sold the last one), and changed the last digit to a 1, and found an identical appearing opposite handed caliper via google search. So these are available from some sources online. I actually scored them for $120 for the pair, NO CORE CHARGES, so I could not resist even though I wasn't sure I wanted this setup vs modifying a better more modern setup to work. Since these are a direct bolt on with the "big Ford" bracket kit that OldeDays Classic Parts sells for $79.99, plus AWD Astrovan front non-ABS rotors or Cadillac rotors, I figured I'd snatch this up. I have PLENTY of projects 2 wheeled and 4 wheeled that will require extensive fabrication work to retrofit my choice of parts, so a simpler bolt-on will help me out immensely here.

So for the best quality loaded remanufactured complete caliper with e-brake linkage and springs, AC Delco brand:
*18FR791 - ACDelco Professional Rear Passenger Side Disc Brake Caliper Assembly without Pads (Friction Ready Non-Coated)

*18FR792 - ACDelco Professional Rear Driver Side Disc Brake Caliper Assembly without Pads (Friction Ready Non-Coated) 18FR792


If I had a better choice of 5 lug drums for the older axle, I would have leaned more towards just keeping the drums, but the GM corporate rear drums to convert a D44 to 5 lug drum are not an exact fit, although it was rumored that a certain brand of drum years ago was slightly wider / deeper friction surface and actually fit perfect, but the current drums that I have leave the inside edge of the shoes hanging out maybe 1/16" past the edge of the drum surface. I was never too happy about this, and a disc rear is a nice (not absolutely necessary) upgrade, and adds more "bling" as well... and will help out towing motorcycle trailers in the Appalachian hills and mountains, as well as if I ever relocate out west (have many friends in Colorado/New Mexico mountain areas, and may have to tow bikes and Suzuki Samurai out there....Can you picture flat towing a Suzuki Samurai with a utility trailer towed behind it?! Road Train ala 1962 GMC 1000 / 351C big block V6 power!).

I really was trying to keep all replacement parts as OEM off the shelf parts, in case I bought some 6 lug aftermarket conversion rotors from a supplier that eventually goes out of business, or if I need parts on the spur of the moment for a breakdown far from home, as the convenience of just ordering something from a NAPA store for the next day delivery would be much nicer than having to hassle with tracking down an aftermarket supplier and next day air shipping parts. This is a big factor for me not leaving the rear a 6 lug, as converting to the newer disc brake front would require this kind of aftermarket-only front rotor if retaining 6 lug. With the Eldorado/Seville etc rear calipers, Astrovan or Caddy rotors, and a 1989 or 1991 Suburban (73-87 pickup is same) front end, I will have parts readily available anywhere for a very long time to come, rather than a 60-62 only part, or aftermarket-only vendor parts. Plus the Torque Thrust wheel deal that I came upon for a 5 lug, that sealed the deal.





If anyone is pursuing the modern drum parking brake integral to disc rotor hat type swap, PLEASE DO POST YOUR INFO HERE, as those parts will be more readily available for some time to come, vs these old Caddy/full size luxury car rear combo calipers...
Although I am REALLY SURPRISED that no one is building brand new versions of these for as popular as they are across all makes and models and types of cars and trucks for rear disc conversions... Even the 4x4 non-GM crowd (including Toyota owners etc) look to these old Caddy calipers for rear disc conversions...
__________________
Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks
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  #10  
Old June 18th, 2019, 07:10 PM
Chuck78 Chuck78 is offline
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Default Re: Dana 44 rear disc conversion 5 lug, drum type parking e-brake vs Eldorado/Seville combo calipers?

Awwww dangit... the Scoggin Dickies Parts Center price was too good to be true!

"We apologize for the inconvenience but this part is not available and on back order, we have no ETA. We will refund account."


NAPA still show the AC Delco part numbers in their system, website says I can pick them up locally TOMORROW if ordered.
The NAPA versions are even coated/painted. Perhaps they are not AC Delco? It says Eclipse, but comes up under searching the AC Delco part # specifically, not an OEM part # or other Cardone, Centric, Wagner etc part #. Shows Part #: CAL SE4690 for the driver's side AC Delco #18FR792
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SEBSE4690
and
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SEBSE4689
$146 each plus shipping (core included)

Oh...and NAPA shows that the Seville was only 1980-1985, the rest are 1979-1985, and the Trans Am only 1979-1981 (different part # from the others anyway).

Well I just paid $280 for the pair of calipers... Would've been about $215 or 220 from RockAuto.com for the readily available Centric brand remanufactured units, but I really wanted to go top quality on brakes, after a slew of chinese clutch masters and slaves failing in 14 years...
+ $80+shipping for the brackets from OldeDays Classic Parts
at least the AWD 1990-2002 AWD front rotors can be had for $35/each all day long! (still have to check on diameter vs the diameter recommended for those brackets, but they do list both Camaro/Trans Am AND Cadillac rotors, which I was not certain if they were both the same diameter or not?
pads are cheap and readily available, and I believe the same as the fronts...




FYI OEM caliper #'s, from a Cadillac forum post, are:

Quote:
Originally Posted by From https://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/1038850-disc-brake-parts-quandary.html
From my factory parts book looking for Rear Calipers OE part numbers LH 18014432 and RH 18014433
__________________
Chuck in Ohio
*1962 GMC 1000 Panel Truck - 305D/Saginaw 4sp soon to be: 351C V6 + AX15 5sp OD trans, & 73-87/91 disc brake front end
*1988 Suzuki Samurai 4x4 project, VW 1.9L mTDI turbodiesel, Toyota V6 LandCruiser drivetrain, full floater axles, future Aqualu LWB aluminum body tub stretch/swap
*Many 1977-1979 Suzuki GS motorcycles & dirtbikes, Kawasaki KDX220, '77 Suzuki PE250, Rickman '74 VR250MX & '76 CR900 roadracer
'*2 '82 VW Rabbit Diesel pickup trucks

Last edited by Chuck78; June 18th, 2019 at 08:11 PM.
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