305 Starter Replacement, Shims; yes or no?

[LifeLongWNYer]

The starter on my 305 ( '64 K1500 ) has been acting up, last week it quit, so I decided to remove it and have it rebuilt. Well, it had more problems than I expected, and the rebuilder replaced virtually every part, except for the housing.

When I pulled the starter out, I ended up with two shims, the rectangular ones, with a rounded notch and a hole at one end. The rebuilder, who has been in business for quite a while was surprized when I mentioned the shims, and said he'd never seen them used with a starter that mounts as the 305 does, rather he usually sees them when the started is mounted with two bolts both of which go up, from the bottom of the starter, and vertically into the block.

In any event, he said that without information to the contrary, since the shims came out of the starter, I should put them back in. ( I am pretty sure one shim was between the starter nose and the face of the flywheel housing, over the top and the bottom starter mounting bolts, I could see the imprints of them in the stains on the starter mounting face. )

Sooo, since the starter is essentially a new starter, should I put the shims back in, or not? How do I know if one shim ( at each position ) is enough, too much, or not enough. By the way, the rebuilder said the wear pattern on the starter drive gear was "very good", nice and even, and it indicated no alignment problems, which he said is another reason to reuse the shims.

So what say the experts?


JBP
Rush, NY

[FetchMeAPepsi]

If it was shimmed and the wear was good to begin with, I'd shim it when I put it back in. It's likely it's been shimmed since it was new since no one takes that kind of care anymore in auto work.

Better safe than sorry because it's digging in at a weird angle.

[George Bongert]

I hate to disagree with you Fetch, but these type of starters were never shimmed right from the factory. The shim(s) may be causing the very problem he is experiencing. Leave the shims out. These starters were not designed to be shimmed. The other style, (those that bolt to bottom side of the engine block with mounting bolts facing upwards) do require shimming for proper starter drive pinion engagement.

[LEWISMATKIN]

Whoever shimmed that starter did not know what they were doing. No v6 starter i have ever seen needed shims because it bolts directly to the bell housing. In the future, you can get a replacement from napa (their # is 213-4841).

[James]

Originally Posted by LEWISMATKIN

Whoever shimmed that starter did not know what they were doing. No v6 starter i have ever seen needed shims because it bolts directly to the bell housing. In the future, you can get a replacement from napa (their # is 213-4841).

That part number does not show up on NAPA web site.

[FetchMeAPepsi]

Originally Posted by George Bongert

I hate to disagree with you Fetch...

Don't worry about it! I'm still "the new kid" when it comes to working on trucks. And I like to put things back like they were. He did say it was wearing right (I mean correctly) before so I erred on the side of caution.

Jim, looks like all the old timers say ditch the shims. I'd like to change my vote to be that, things being what they are.



Also something else: I think I read somewhere that you could use a Chevy starter and just change the head on it or the case on it or something and it'll work instead of getting it rebuilt.

[LEWISMATKIN]

James, the reason it doesn't come up on the NAPA website is that you have to look it up in the medium/heavy duty truck section of the program. The starter carries the same drive/lever housing as the 366/427 Chev engines w/manual transmission. Besides, I have over 44 yrs. of parts experience that may give me a slight advantage than most people who try to look up their parts.

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks for the advice guys, I wish I'd waited longer to put the starter back in.... I read the reply that said to put the shims back in, and the rebuilder said to do it, so that is what I did.

It won't be a big job to loosen the starter and remove the shims, so the next time we get a decent day, I'll pull them out. It does start nicely now, with the shims in, sounds just like it should, but I will pull them out anyway.

I am the second owner of this truck, ( 14,698 miles ) but there is no one left in the fire department that I bought it from who remembers anything about it, so I can't find out why the shims were there. It took an extra step to obtain them and put them in, so I presume it was one of those "it made sense at the time" deals.

Thanks for the help guys 'n gals,



JBP

[bigblockv6]

The starter carries the same drive/lever housing as the 366/427 Chev engines w/manual transmission. Lewis is correct on that, years back when did my 478M conversion I bought a bigger starter on eBay that both fit 401 V6 and 427 V8 truck applications.

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks, BigBlock, that got me thinking.... I have a 401, which I intended to drop into the '64, but never quite got around to it. I will have to go look at that starter setup.


Thanks, JBP